Napoleonic II-TW 2v2 (Battle of Waterloo)

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Napoleonic II-TW 2v2 (Battle of Waterloo)

Postby CCCCC » Fri May 09, 2008 12:00 pm

replay Video:

part.1

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=6AVnFE_yhbw

part.2

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=51tJ4H5ugOo

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ver:ntw2 mod(for RTW 1.5 , BI 1.6) ver 1.0

rules:1 gen , 2 max art per player , no gm

player:TW-Takata , CCCCC vs Gxxxxxx, Seed-Card

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Postby Jakob » Fri May 09, 2008 3:06 pm

Yay! Once again proof that NTW2 has become a charge fest.

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Postby Horton III » Fri May 09, 2008 4:16 pm

:cry:
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Postby Lord Gunner24 » Fri May 09, 2008 5:29 pm

Once again proof that NTW2 has become a charge fest.


Hmmmmm, it would seem so from this evidence, but not ALL games are like this.

There are different style's of games out there, something to suit everyone I'm sure.
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Postby Rectunator » Fri May 09, 2008 7:44 pm

I thought it was bad when PVI melee-spammed back in NTW1
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Postby Jakob » Fri May 09, 2008 8:42 pm

Rectunator wrote:I thought it was bad when PVI melee-spammed back in NTW1


Ha, most people (especially N) have turned to PVI tactics. Basically going to one side and then WOO! Mass melee with Guards, Carabiners, Grenadiers ? Cheval. Its like an NTW2 whorehouse. lol

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Postby Rectunator » Fri May 09, 2008 10:20 pm

Really?
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Postby Jakob » Sat May 10, 2008 1:44 am

Rectunator wrote:Really?


I kid you not.

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Postby Lord Legless Lannes » Mon May 12, 2008 5:03 pm

Jakob wrote:
Rectunator wrote:Really?


I kid you not.



:roll:

Didn't know you were privy to all [N] games Jakob, and if i recall you yourself went for the mass melee charge attack in the last 3v3 game I played. Pot calling the kettle black maybe.
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Postby Coldstream Guard » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:09 pm

Jakob wrote:
Rectunator wrote:I thought it was bad when PVI melee-spammed back in NTW1


Ha, most people (especially N) have turned to PVI tactics. Basically going to one side and then WOO! Mass melee with Guards, Carabiners, Grenadiers ? Cheval. Its like an NTW2 whorehouse. lol


It's funny, the excuses people will make for their own poor generalship. Back when I used to still play this game, people online would set up their defenses at the start of the game and just sit there, come hell or high water, in the same spot while the enemy rolls up their flanks, and then b***h about it. Maneuver in Napoleonic warfare is the NAME OF THE GAME. If all three of your foes want to pile their entire army on one side, you should kindly invite your allies over to you where they can set up their artillery to delivery enfilading fire, and follow up with muskets at 10 feet against an enemy struggling to get into line formation.

Don't just piss and moan about the enemy tactics, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. And "do something," doesn't mean sit there like a bump on a log. Maneuver, maneuver, and then maneuver some more until the enemy gets bored and forces a bad position at which point you'll mop him up like spilled milk.
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Postby Moopere » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:47 am

Coldstream Guard wrote:
and follow up with muskets at 10 feet against an enemy struggling to get into line formation.


Heh, yeah, its a nice idea and the way one would think it -should- work. But you are making the assumption that this 'blob' of troops will eventually use some tactics (re: comment above about enemy trying to get into line). This isn't the case, this mass blob just rolls around the battlefield like a behemoth crushing everything in its way.

Generally it appears to win by crushing enemy morale due to the extremely large concentration of troops in a small area - your troops morale just melts away before it.

No reasonable tactic has yet been found by the community that I'm aware of that will counter the blob aside from your team forming a similar blob and hitting them head on....which is not dissimilar to two disorganised shield walls going at it on the field....not very Napoleonic.

I hear what you are saying though, there definately -should- be a sane tactical way to get through this, but despite what should be it does appear at the moment that nothing is available.

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Postby Coldstream Guard » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:38 pm

A blob of troops that NO ONE CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEFEAT?! Does no one carry 12-pounders anymore? Now mind you I'm certain the balance of the game has changed since I last played it a year ago, but back then a blob of troops is something I would love to turn into a blob of severed body parts, courtesy of my artillery. Just lob a few balls right down their ranks and cause 10, 15, 20 casualties per shot, not to mention what happens inside of cannister range.

From the pictures above it seems that the Brits suffered from a distinct lack of combined arms. Where is the cavalry? Where is the artillery? Where are the interior lines and reserve troops? Why is it just a bunh of infantry waiting to get cut up by the Guard cavalry? Why are they positioned on such attrocious ground? Poor generalship, poor troop choices, awful loss. Their fault.
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Postby Jakob » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:58 pm

Coldstream Guard wrote:A blob of troops that NO ONE CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEFEAT?! Does no one carry 12-pounders anymore? Now mind you I'm certain the balance of the game has changed since I last played it a year ago, but back then a blob of troops is something I would love to turn into a blob of severed body parts, courtesy of my artillery. Just lob a few balls right down their ranks and cause 10, 15, 20 casualties per shot, not to mention what happens inside of cannister range.

From the pictures above it seems that the Brits suffered from a distinct lack of combined arms. Where is the cavalry? Where is the artillery? Where are the interior lines and reserve troops? Why is it just a bunh of infantry waiting to get cut up by the Guard cavalry? Why are they positioned on such attrocious ground? Poor generalship, poor troop choices, awful loss. Their fault.



Well the price of artillery has gone up and in most games artillery is set to a limit of 2 or 3 if you're generous.

Also France is WAY over powered, so one can take a regular army (Heavy cav, Lights, no militia) and still have the cash to take Old Guard.

Before the Swedes and Turks, you had to pay out the a*****e if you wanted them, not now.

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Postby Coldstream Guard » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:04 pm

If one is going to limit the number if arty, it seems you should also limit the number of guard troops.
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Postby Rectunator » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:46 pm

I remember the good old phrase "Rules: 1gen per player, max 2 arty, max 4 guard/grens" from my own games. Or max 1 arty if we talk about ntw1. :)
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Postby Coldstream Guard » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:52 pm

Rectunator wrote:I remember the good old phrase "Rules: 1gen per player, max 2 arty, max 4 guard/grens" from my own games. Or max 1 arty if we talk about ntw1. :)


Yes I used to play with you a lot.
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Postby Jakob » Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:35 pm

Rectunator wrote:I remember the good old phrase "Rules: 1gen per player, max 2 arty, max 4 guard/grens" from my own games. Or max 1 arty if we talk about ntw1. :)


Problem with those rule is, if you're France, than you're just gonna have more money to buy Old Guard with out having the penalties of taking militia or crap cav. So those rules won't even work anyway. (Unless you exclude France)

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Postby [Grognard]_Arjan » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:35 pm

Everyone is so scared of blobs these days. Even rules are changed to counter it. All you need to do is pull back your troops when flanked/charged and try to surround 'the blob'. they will be shred in no time. Look at the Battle of Cannae. The Romans pushed the middle and all Hannibal did was to surround them.

Manouvering is the key. By a good manouvre you can get the speed out of a charge and make it useless. Also counter attacking on his other flank often helps. Then he'll have to decide what's more important, his attack or his defense.

I also get the feeling you find a 'blob' somehwat unfair? When is a charge fair then? because units will always go out of order once engaged in melee.


Besides that i have to agree with Jakob a bit. France is a bit overpowered. Or other factions underpowered. France has decent cav and decent artillery for 700 florins. The Dutch dont even have decent artillery at 750 florins. They have acceptable cav at 700 florins. Taking the old guard should weaken you at other spots but France can still have a nice all round army with the og. The Dutch however have to pay 750 florins for shittier artillery. I suggest we straighten such things out and make sure that nations without guard and nice 12 pounders can take an extra other unit because they save money. Atm this is not the case. For 10k florins the Dutch cant really take more (shittier) troops than the France.


What I see on the screens is that the British gave up their flank and hill too easily, came in with the reserves too late (and wrong, instead of forming a shooting line he countercharged while France had the momentum. Simply by forming a nice line and shooting the French advance would have done a great deal) In a desperate attempt the British themselves form somewhat of a blob, ofcourse whiped away after being surrounded.

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Postby Coldstream Guard » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:56 pm

[Grognard]_Arjan wrote:. What I see on the screens is that the British gave up their flank and hill too easily, came in with the reserves too late (and wrong, instead of forming a shooting line he countercharged while France had the momentum. Simply by forming a nice line and shooting the French advance would have done a great deal) In a desperate attempt the British themselves form somewhat of a blob, ofcourse whiped away after being surrounded.


Yes. Start with the attrocious ground choice and move on from there. The attack with the hidden troops was a good idea but executed poorly. His entire line was collapsing when the troops finally engaged.

Also, he wasted his cavalry against the enemy artillery early on. That cavalry was sorely needed at the end of the game. Rolling up on the guard's rear would have been a much better way to expend those horsemen.
"Don't worry - they're just a bunch of noobs." - Napoleon to staff officers upon seeing the arrival of the Prussians at Waterloo


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