Addressing some Grognard clan players

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turcoman
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Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby turcoman » Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:59 pm

Apologies, this might not be the best place to write but i neither speak French nor willing to bother translating from fr to en for the sake of creating an account in Grog forum. That's why i will write here.

Today i was invited to game by Marbot and Why_Not of Grog clan. And after 1 unsuccessful attempt (one player was dropped in the game), for the 2nd game, they kicked me, claiming that i am camper, later on i offered them to play LOC games so they could win if somebody camps, yet the answer was same, you are camping...

That was very strange behaviour as i was invited to the game, spend around half hour for set up, and then being kicked. I assume Grognard clan might have some policy for that kind of behaviour ?

This game is napoleonic game, bringing up artillery and using them should not be blamed, or considered as camping, unless the players are sitting on the hill, and doing nothing. Actually bringing no art or 1 small artillery unit and 16 infantry should be considered as unpleasant.

If Grognard clan has such concerns, I suggest them to play more LOC as i hardly see them doing so, rather than accusing players of being "camper" and kicking them from the games that they actually invited.
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Re: Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby TPGV Cincinnato » Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:22 pm

I know well Turcoman, and all you can say about him except he be a camper. You're a good player,Turcoman, why not come officially in clan V, together with Lancier and Chromey? Surely you would be respected more!

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Re: Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby Tac » Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:24 pm

HB games are probably a better choice for you pre-planned without any of this nonsense.
I also have never heard of a clan "V".

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Re: Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby Wym... » Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:54 pm

Tac wrote:I also have never heard of a clan "V".


Damn Velites.......they get every where nowadays......They should know their place........The stables with a manure fork me thinks??
"I don't know what effect these men will have upon the enemy, but by God they frighten me"

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Re: Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby Sloop » Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:33 pm

Inference to none intended, simply my general opinion;

LOC, no LOC, HB, or any rules; the tactic of camping is inconsequential. Anyone foolish enough to camp does not understand the overwhelming effectiveness of maneuver and attack. Someone complaining about others camping have the same ignorant misconceptions of this tactic. A camper's plan will not change, it is entirely predictable and static. Campers are fish in a barrel that will simply result in a higher kill count.

It is enjoyable to prove this theory against a host that expects to camp his carefully picked map, even changing to alliance two for a better deployment. Campers learn nothing from their defeats, they have little strategy and no flexibility or ingenuity. Notice the mighty [V] clan does not complain about campers, they salivate and gorge on an easy kill.

I find it interesting that it is always the lesser skilled players that complain about this mod. These players complain about the mod's statistics and historical accuracy or their opponent's game play. Next time you hear a complaint, measure the prowess of the complainer, you will find it is in direct correlation with his skill, or lack thereof.

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Re: Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby TPGV Cincinnato » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:46 pm

Tac wrote:HB games are probably a better choice for you pre-planned without any of this nonsense.
I also have never heard of a clan "V".


Of course I was joking. However you create confusion with the letter "V" for aspirant for "N"clan!

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Re: Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby Lord Lancier » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:05 pm

Must be a misunderstanding. If Turcoman is a camper, Liberalis must be the king of it as he sometimes charges in 1st minute with his pro inf sometimes takes 6 artillery and sit on the hill forever ?!
But both players can never be campers they just use artillery which is one of the units of ntw3? ;Z.
I dont know why-not but veteran grogs like Cosak, Kettch and Christ ... would never forgive the REAL campers as they are the Pro chargers and maneuver masters since ntw2. So let this issue stay as a misunderstanding for both sides.
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Re: Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:44 pm

Camper is a very unpolite way to say that the acuser fears you and that that one has choosed the best ground to fight the battle. Or maybe he was the wiser one ,after all , the rule,strategy,tactic number one of any human war era ,is the get the high ground .
For me if someone decides to position in a high ground position with several artillery means that he fears and knows that he cannot win in a field that is balanced to both armies.
You are already in one of the most respected and veteran clans on TW community and beside you ,as we talked once, you have Hekko a excellent TW player. You 2 should team up more often.
Its not the clan tag that make you more respected.
Any clan of this very small community of TW games ,N,Grognards even my clan Lusitani Legio would be more than pleased to have a player like you on their ranks.
I would say to you ,even if i dont have to many friends on Grognards, dont create this profile for the clan based on the acts of a couple of their soldiers .
If someone dont want you to play their games its just due they fear you :wink: .
.☠. Lusitani Legio ,Fundator membrum
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Re: Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby DOC » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:51 am

Never really understood the reason for the word 'camper', especially in an Napoleonic game. By definition does this mean Victor was 'camping' at Marengo, Wellington at Waterloo, Blucher at Ligny just to name a few. Taking up a defensive position and deciding that your overall tactic will be to play a defensive battle is for me totally acceptable. If the opponent aint moving then i can leisurely take my time to decide where to commit my main attack, basically what Sloop said. I for one can say that I have never seen Turco camping, he doesnt even 'camp' in HB's, he is an aggressive player so i do hope this is just a misunderstanding and can we please drop the word camping, thats for 8 year olds who play CoD.
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Re: Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby Chromey » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:36 pm

to be banned by Le Grognard player(s) from playing with them is an admission of fear on their part and should be known as a badge of honour in the community. :biggrin:
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Re: Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby dragonmelet » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:41 pm

Chromey wrote:to be banned by Le Grognard player(s) from playing with them is an admission of fear on their part and should be known as a badge of honour in the community. :biggrin:
:mrgreen:

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Re: Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby Sloop » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:09 pm

TPGV Cincinnato wrote:Of course I was joking. However you create confusion with the letter "V" for aspirant for "N"clan!
[V] are not in the [N] Clan. Stable boys and boot polishers are not officers of [N]. At times we will allow Velites to assist with latrines and donkey washing along with the other camp followers.

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Re: Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby Lord Lancier » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:23 am

We work at nights at stables the [V]ampires clan :>>
TPGV Cincinnato wrote:
Of course I was joking. However you create confusion with the letter "V" for aspirant for "N"clan!
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Re: Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby Seimour01 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:59 pm

Regardless of player feuds, a camper is usually someone who brings a lot of artillery to sit in front of his spawn or inside of it and does nothing else. While this may be easy kills for skilled players, it also makes for a very boring game. Some people may prefer to remove those perceived as campers to increase movements and shorten the game. After all, if it takes 35 minutes to reach someone's spawn and another 30 to maneuver around his guns and beat him, the odds of crashing have increased significantly.

As Sloop rightly pointed out, the camper always has the same strategy but for me, the issue is that it gets very boring to be constantly faced with someone so bereft of any skills that he will always do the same thing, thus ruining the game for his team and opponents by being dead weight/tactically challenged.

If you are called a camper, take a screenshot of your final position before you lose/win before each battle add the amount of artillery you had and compare.

I've seldom enjoyed sitting on a hill waiting for the enemy to be dumb enough to attack my artillery. If I did, the AI would be a satisfying opponent. People may qualify their playstyle as they wish but I find that those who reject the label of "camper" when it is applied to them seldom know how to attack and will go on long rants about "historical camping" without realizing that the game engine limits the punishment on such behavior. There are no supply lines or lines of communications or even theaters of war to represent the weaknesses of an army incapable of moving. I will point out, however, that the Austrian relied heavily on such strategies prior to 1809 and lost most of the time because of it. Cue to the battle of Ulm. When they actually tried to attack(Marengo-Landshut Maneuver), they came so close to winning they got confused and ended up losing the initiative.

A true static camper on this mod would not fare well in a game in which there is no red line. He would be encircled and have his supply lines cut off and end up forced to surrender. If that were the case, I'd be extremely happy with people who chose to indulge in this boring behavior. I would happily let them starve to death as I whittle them down.


PS: As for Liberalis bringing 8 batteries: it's certainly not camping if they end up in the enemy spawn with 1200 kills. Using artilleries offensively is something I seldom see at the moment.
You can do anything with bayonets except sit on them.

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Re: Addressing some Grognard clan players

Postby Sloop » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:39 am

[N] cares little of arguments, the excitement or boredom of a battle, or accusations of inappropriate tactics. We concern ourselves only with honor and the blood that will quench our thirst.


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