HB vs Classic Players

For all discussions about Napoleon's Eagles, the historical mode for NTW3 by Lord Dessaix
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Sloop
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HB vs Classic Players

Postby Sloop » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:54 pm

In these forums I have read numerous descriptions about the differences between the HB and the classic player which expose the attitudes of both types of players toward each other. Most posts criticize the other type of player and show a surprising amount of prejudice. I will not regurgitate the details of the aforementioned posts however I will make an attempt to summarize my thoughts. We are all in the same community and we all carry both characteristics however most of us are one type much more than the other:

HB players are truly the purists. They will devoid any game of enjoyment to preserve historical accuracy. They will sacrifice playability and scenario balance to better immerse themselves into their fantasy world of little toy soldiers. To them it is the parade of uniforms and the proper display of formations that sustain their suspension of disbelief. They are to be envied as a more dignified class and they are much more detached from the real world. They claim that they play a gentleman’s game yet they classify few of their peers as gentlemen. The HB experience is much more difficult to achieve and an improbable medium to measure the glory of victory. To them glory is an epic show with everything in proper place. Competition is of less concern as history and adherence to the rules of history take precedence.

Classic players are competitors. They love history but will sacrifice a larger measure of simulation to foster playability and competition. Classic players are wargamers. They like war and they like games, and they like to win at both of them. They believe arbitrary rules contaminate the pure competitive nature of the game and any historical discrepancies can be overlooked until the next mod. They are more concerned with game tactics than the tactics of the era. Classic players can not claim as high a level of historical authenticity yet they carry much less the culture of pomposity. Classic players fancy themselves as elite tacticians yet they are actually assassin thugs. The Classic player is more concerned with victory than history and will measure his opponents not by their good manners but by their skill or lack thereof.

The classic player has no ground to argue against Historical Battles and rules because the HB player holds the high ground of historical ethics and accuracy. The Classic player simply wins.

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Re: HB vs Classic Players

Postby Chromey » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:22 am

Classic players help keep the mod alive. HB players would rather not have new players

mess up their archaic play structure.
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[NBC]Friant
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Re: HB vs Classic Players

Postby [NBC]Friant » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:11 am

archaic

synonyms: obsolete, obsolescent, out of date, anachronistic, old-fashioned, outmoded, behind the times, bygone, antiquated, antique, superannuated, antediluvian, past its prime, having seen better days, olde worlde, old-fangled;

I think historical is the word you are looking for. :wink:

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Re: HB vs Classic Players

Postby FireTight » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:09 am

HB vs Classic - round two - FIGHT! *insert street fighter theme*

Anyway, Sloop is right.

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DOC
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Re: HB vs Classic Players

Postby DOC » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:38 am

As a general overview i agree with what Sloop said on most points but before we get to that lets just put the card on the table that NTW is a flawed concept, it is the best that we have to work with, but still a flawed concept. How do i mean well, it is Napoleonic Wars, but with linear tactics, ie long lines of men advancing towards each other. That however is a game design choice, a balance between immersion into Nap battles and being able to sell it to a wide scope of people. Fair does, its made them alot of money. Just as a side note if CA had wanted to make it more Napoleonic they could have easily introduced a disordered state for when infantry move a certain distance in line, which would not effect troops moving in column and voila you have a simple mechanic that would make players consider the use of columns more.

Anyway i digress.

HB players are truly the purists. They will devoid any game of enjoyment to preserve historical accuracy. They will sacrifice playability and scenario balance to better immerse themselves into their fantasy world of little toy soldiers.


This really depends on the persons point of view, which is really what most of these arguments come down to. HB players get enjoyment out of historical accuracy not much more i can say on that. Playability and scenario balance, for the size of the HB community look at how many replays there are both here on lordz and the ntwhb forum. As for scenario balance, classic has this with LOC scoring points which pre-determines what sizes of army can be taken.

yet they carry much less the culture of pomposity


now i can see how it looks like pomposity but for me its more a case of, hb's are meant to be played with rules in place, this is how we play them as a group so please respect how we play if you want to join an HB game with said players. I dont join a classic LOC game or whatever then try and change any rules that are in place for that. I ask the host what the rules are, if any, and play the battle accordingly.

The Classic player simply wins.


Unless he faces me.

Thats a joke by the way.

Classic players help keep the mod alive. HB players would rather not have new players

mess up their archaic play structure.


Cant argue with the first sentence i agree 100%.

New players are always welcome but as i have said, please respect the rules that are already in place and adhere to them. Like i said above, i dont join classic games then ignore or dont implement the rules that have been agreed upon for that battle.

As for archaic play structure, well LCS is a work around and thats all it will ever be. There have been quite a few attempts of trying different things but LCS was found to be the easiest and best one to use. When HB's were first designed Desaix actually asked CA to give him the tool to change square button, promises were made but CA did nothing and it wasnt even a difficult thing for them to do, they just couldnt be arsed, so this is what we were left to work with.

Anyway thats my thought on the matter.

P.S. As most players know I play both versions, both are very enjoyable for me and I have steam friends who only play only one or the other so whats a bloke to do.
Last edited by DOC on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lord Desaix
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Re: HB vs Classic Players

Postby Lord Desaix » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:39 am

Sorry but I don't recognize myself in both category.
I would play classic loc game with joy if it wasn't for that ugly-to-watch last second square from line. Actually in HB, when we actively played them each evening, there was a fair amount of competitivness and bitter discussions.

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Re: HB vs Classic Players

Postby Gonzo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:19 pm

Yup square button is ruining classic and the whole game for that matter.
In HB we archived some walk a rounds, but its just what it is, a walk around.
This game in core is just broken by one piece of crap feature.
Be cause of that classic is like more arcade mode.

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Re: HB vs Classic Players

Postby stilgar » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:00 pm

Sloop, if you add "archetypical" to the title of your post, I'd wholeheartedly agree. I know 2 or 3 players that fit reasonably well your description of HB player, but a more prosaic description applies to the remainder. The only difference is that HB players have a few more requirements to classify a game as a good one.
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Re: HB vs Classic Players

Postby Lord Gunner24 » Tue May 26, 2015 4:17 pm

Yup square button is ruining classic and the whole game for that matter.

CA have much to answer for, one little feature, that can cause so much trouble........hard to believe - but very true.
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Re: HB vs Classic Players

Postby Ztrain909 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:41 pm



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