Unit speed and stamina?

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imonoz
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Unit speed and stamina?

Postby imonoz » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:50 pm

TL;DR at the bottom-

So I started playing this game some weeks ago, it's fun and all but I don't really like the way unit speed works.. Playing a "lesser" nations feels very limited, with almost no ability to successfully go into melee (because the troops run so slow and gets exhausted too fast), and always getting outmanuvered by the swift French troops who reaches most of the mid-points faster (this I agree with however, that the walking speed for French troops are faster).

In my opinion, it would be more logical (and fun) if the running speed for the infantry was the same between nations, so that everyone had the oppurtunity of closing the distance (if their nation-morale allows it). But still have it so that walking speed is different (I believe the French were faster in their maneuvers historically, so I fully support this, but I do not believe they ran faster than everybody else when charging....). This whole thing where there's different running speeds for the nations brings some balancing issues in terms of stamina imo. I THINK that stamina is decided by the amount of time the unit runs AND NOT the distance the unit travels (which would be more logical to me). This means (if stamina works as I think it does, I haven't really checked this in detail) basically all French troops have way better stamina than the rest and I just think all these advantages makes France way too overpowered, even for the 12 points the best one has... Basically to the point where I think it's really unfun to play with a nation except for France and perhaps Russia.

The way the game works now seems, to me at least, very unbalanced. Even the unit stats, it's like the running speed wasn't accorded for when the unit stats were made. Take the elite units of "Svea lifgarde" and "Drabants" in Sweden for one, they have awesome charging stats but only a running speed of 2 and 1 respectively... This means they in fact are pretty bad at charging and closing the distance at all, seeing how they kinda "limp" towards the enemy while charging and almost gets exhausted before they even gets there. This doesn't make any sense to me and I hope the devs of this mod take a further looks at balancing things here. There's probably a lot of years until the next musket Total war game to come out, NTW3 still has a lot of bright years ahead imo.

And a last note talking about Sweden as I got in there, in this mod they have bad charging and running stats, they're basically portrayed as a "shooting" nation (even though their defense stats are also kinda bad imo which is.. idk) but historically they were not a shooting nation, not at all. They were in fact more similar to Russia; a nation that preferred to close the distance and go into melee. They probably advocated the bayonet more than Russia even, judging by the times they fought in the wars of 1788-90 and 1808-09 (also earlier than that but I think that might not be relevant to the time period). Just a note, if you'll one day try to make the "side-nations" more historically correct.

TL;DR Make the infantry running speed the same between nations, keep the disparity in speed when marching only. This will still give France a huge advantage being first at points and beneficial positions, but still give "lesser" nations an honest chance to close the distance and go into melee. If this can be done that is, I'm aware there can be limits to how the speeds can be adjusted in the game.

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Lord Davn
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Re: Unit speed and stamina?

Postby Lord Davn » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:44 am

The French units were better trained and the NTW3 mod reflects that, besides I'm not sure that if I were in a battle as a minor nation that I would want to charge a French Line infantry. :violence-duel:
“This was their finest hour!” ~Winston Churchill

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Re: Unit speed and stamina?

Postby imonoz » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:17 pm

Lord Davn wrote:The French units were better trained and the NTW3 mod reflects that, besides I'm not sure that if I were in a battle as a minor nation that I would want to charge a French Line infantry.


That's usually the way the Swedish army fought back then, by going into melee. During the war against France in 1805-07 light Swedish troops charged French entrenchments outside Stralsund. In the battle outside Stralsund starting on 1 April 1807 the French were forced out of Pomerania with a loss of more than 1226 men as a result (the Swedes had an advantage in number of course but still, it wouldn't be possible without bayonet charges).

Like I said, I agree that the French were masters at maneuvers and could move around their troops faster on the battlefield, but that doesn't mean they ran faster when going into melee or had better endurance. Well, maybe if they trained for 100 metre sprints and long distance running as a daily activity but I highly doubt it. The running-speed for the line units in the game should be more or less the same imo, only the marching (walking) speed should be faster for the French, that's still a huge advantage if you ask me.

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Re: Unit speed and stamina?

Postby Lord Davn » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:35 pm

The Swedish army melee stats are pretty good already, even on par with some of the British & French units. The problem was that the vanilla mod usually turned into a melee mess half way thru the battle. Adjustments were made to the battle stats to move away from that.
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