Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

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Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Luk3sak » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:16 pm

Hello Lordz,

I would like to share with you our (Hiller clan) feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta:

- missing indication/mark which unit can form square

- many british units can form square while many french units can not which makes no sense because french army in 1806 wast the best in Europe

- why british units have so high morale ? Hanoverian line 30, 2nd battalion 35 etc. ?! There is difference between words morale and discipline. Britain is now so OP

- why grenadiers can not form square ? Grenadiers were elite infantry (talking mainly about Austians) and can do all formations like column and square. Maybe you should read more about Aspern-Essling and Wagram battle when were austrian grenadiers forming squares against french cavalry. Austrian army did not have guard units, they have grenadiers who had better conditions and were better then the others

- we suggest that veterans and better units will have ability to form square. Exception can be light inf.

- many swedish units can form square

- you should add swiss infantry to Spanish army, they had 6 swiss regiments: No.1 Wimpffen, No. 2 Rutiman, No. 3 Reding, No. 4 Betschart, No. 5 Traxler and No. 6 Preux. These regiments consisted of professionals.

- Austrians have black coats in fact they were gray

- why Ottomans have rating 18 pts. ?! They do not have querilla arty any more. Only two units can set stakes. There are caps to their elite cavalry while many unique units in the mod do not have any caps ! You only add them useless GB howitzers. So ? No way to increase their rating to 18 compare to the other nations like Wurttenberg 14, Bavaria 16, Regno d´Italia 16,...

I do not want to criticize your work dear Lordz. I want to say a big thank you, we all love this mod and game but these are not changes that we would like to see in the future.

Luk3sak
Last edited by Luk3sak on Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Lord Cosak » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:01 pm

As I wrote already to you, and on this forum several times about the next version, the ability to form squares causes an extra cost. So a nation (ie. Sweden) with many units able to form squares will have all these units being more expensive. England is not OP at all because 90% of its infantry units are more expensive because of the square ability (see Wym's post).

Thank you very much for suggesting us to read about Aspern. The Austrian army is one of the most square-prone army in this version. The Austrian grenadiers are already the best grenadiers in-game for shooting and defense, so their elite aspect is taken in consideration.

Swiss infantry for the Spanish army: the Betschart regiment is already in NTW3 since v5.
Swedish-Russian war in 1808 showed a special effective training and use of squares for the Swedish army.
England is not really OP because 90% of its infantry units are more expensive because of squares. From my own personal tests I even think UK is the most difficult 20-points faction to play with (it's a subjective consideration, not a fact).

Ottomans: most of what you wrote is wrong. They can deploy 6 guns and 10 (quite useless) mortars in guerilla. You think the GB howitzer is useless while all other tests proved exactly the opposite (some consider it overpowered). Bavaria is not rated 14. No 2 but 6 units can put stakes (3 of each kind, one of them guerilla).

All remarks will be taken in consideration. Thank you for your efforts and feedback..
Last edited by Lord Cosak on Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Luk3sak » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:47 pm

Maybe we run different versions but I can see only Kazmaci and Bonstancilar Yenicerileri can deploy stakes. Sorry. My mistake I did not count useless howitzer and mortar. Anyways Ottomans can not have rating 18 pts. Personaly I think almost every nation infantry units are more expensive not only british. And what about british units morale ? Make them more expensive with these stats.

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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Chromey » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:43 pm

only British can square? What an interesting looking upcoming patch...
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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Lord Cosak » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:22 pm

Chromey wrote:only British can square? What an interesting looking upcoming patch...


Absolutely not... :rolleyes:

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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Sloop » Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:58 pm

I have had the opportunity to beta test a certain "regimental" version of NTW3 which does not allow squares. Surprisingly the loss of the square does not ruin the game play and the "historical" feel is very much still present or perhaps even more so. The fact that squares are not devastated by artillery in a historical manner means the historical aspect of the square in NTW is lacking in the first place. In the regimental beta, the cavalry vs infantry dynamic has been modified and is probably the single greatest change in the game. For version 6 the idea to limit units that can form square with adjustments in unit costs may very well be a viable solution to the despised insta-square.

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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:46 pm

Sloop wrote:I have had the opportunity to beta test a certain "regimental" version of NTW3 which does not allow squares. Surprisingly the loss of the square does not ruin the game play and the "historical" feel is very much still present or perhaps even more so. The fact that squares are not devastated by artillery in a historical manner means the historical aspect of the square in NTW is lacking in the first place. In the regimental beta, the cavalry vs infantry dynamic has been modified and is probably the single greatest change in the game. For version 6 the idea to limit units that can form square with adjustments in unit costs may very well be a viable solution to the despised insta-square.


What for is the square formation ?
For anti cavalry charges ,on NTW III to counter the spam of infantry charges blobs.
This is nothing to do with historical issues, its only and exclusevly to turn this mod to certain type of gaming style .This is for players ,with lack of patient and ingame skill,that use cavalry in very noobish way ,suicidal missions ,to solve in two clicks when a player doesnt know or have the intelegence and knowledge of the warfare of the time period to achieve victory on the battlefield ,as they were fought,on this mod.
It is funny to see ,that some years ago, when NBC demanded the column formation before square N and Grogs joked about them but , now , the infantry battalions ,will beat a cavalry charge if they are in a column .
:clap:

More and more the battles are fought in 25% of the battlefield . Just blob and march .
The solution ? Annihilate the only formation that stops the total freedom for this type of gaming .
This warfare was the begning of the end of the strengh of cavalry ,rare was the ocasion that cavalry won the battles decisevly .
On NTW III you keep making them stronguer,cheaper and faster and remove any way to counter the noobs that exploit the cavalry on arcade style.
This warfare the artillery was the weapon that won battles.
On NTW III thru this years you made them slower,and slower,expensive,reduce of the power .
I would continue but its to many years wanting a mod as i first met , the most realistic mod ever done on TW community ,now its more and more a arcade game .
The end .
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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Lord Cosak » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:10 pm

To sum up the previous rant: insta-squares = best solution against arcade gaming. Probably a joke.

As a reminder: less than 5% of the Napoleonic-era battles had a square formed during their events. Of course, no test or preview has been made by the previous poster. With a bit of lucid mind and objective testing, he would have noticed cavalry has been significantly weakened to balance the new gameplay changes, therefore artillery is more decisive (see Wym's post about v6 tests).

By the way, to clear things up: squares won't be removed, far from that... Portugal, for instance, can line up 8 units able to form squares, Denmark 6, Naples only 3.

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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:15 am

Lord Cosak wrote:To sum up the previous rant: insta-squares = best solution against arcade gaming. Probably a joke.

As a reminder: less than 5% of the Napoleonic-era battles had a square formed during their events. Of course, no test or preview has been made by the previous poster. With a bit of lucid mind and objective testing, he would have noticed cavalry has been significantly weakened to balance the new gameplay changes, therefore artillery is more decisive (see Wym's post about v6 tests).

By the way, to clear things up: squares won't be removed, far from that... Portugal, for instance, can line up 8 units able to form squares, Denmark 6, Naples only 3.


Cosak , i do not doubt your good intentions for the mod ,but you can give me all the possible stories you wish ,my response will be , no .
Again you give me reason,those hipothetic 5% , was because 95% of the cavalry use, was not for suicidal charges or missions to force the infantry to square for infantry charge on melee .
The problem is the wrong use of the cavalry ingame not the square , the square is the only,correct and properly way to use against cavalry charges .

The game as it was on with the first versions was ok .
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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Lord Gunner24 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:21 pm

Hello, I hope you get this new version just right, not for me, but to keep the ntw3 Community alive and kicking. It would be a poor thing for it to fade away to nothing after all these years. And, if you do get it right, you may well bring back some of the old timers and make it even more popular than in the good old days !.

Fast instant squares are rubbish and did ruin the game, which was why NBC all that time back tried the line column square rule, to make the squares SLOWER to be formed, but that of course caused all kinds of nasty things to be said between those that liked it and those that thought it was too hard to do, or to hard to enforce (rules wise). So, if something else can to brought into the game to stop instant squares popping up all over the place as soon as Cav attack that might work.

was because 95% of the cavalry use, was not for suicidal charges or missions to force the infantry to square for infantry charge on melee

I agree here that Cav (in game) has not been correctly used by many players for years, but that was because it was able to be used that way, with little or no penalty.

to counter the spam of infantry charges blobs.

This has always been more of a problem than anything to do with squares, hope you find a way to stop it.

when NBC demanded the column formation before square N and Grogs joked about them

NBC was the subject of many jokes, and much abuse, but that never stop us playing, what stopped us playing was ridiculous, stupid, daft things being done which resulted in a TW game, and not a Nap game.

Good luck all working on the next version.
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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Seimour01 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:36 pm

Image
You can do anything with bayonets except sit on them.

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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:42 pm

Lord Gunner24 wrote:
to counter the spam of infantry charges blobs.

This has always been more of a problem than anything to do with squares, hope you find a way to stop it.



One of the latest battles betwen comrades of historical clans of our community .

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUlc_5n0yWY[/youtube]

It has everything to do with squares, since when you send battalions to charge blob without cavalry suport. Please .

This has been like this for the last 2 to 3 years . Its the result of the continuous changes .
Everyone knows how battles are fought betwen the clans and how they are decided .
The absurd and when a person come here to the forum , those persons , talk as it did not hapened.

Not even on NTW this type of gameplay occurs ,i have been fighting over and over for this last years and always i have been cruxified .
Simply because the majority of the mod workers, lack of hability ingame and keep changing it to make the game more easier .

This is a typical noob gameplay ,go to any TW game and play like this everyone call you NOOB .

But when time comes on the field i prove how to win battles in historical way .
And now without any weapon to counter cavalry , that is the unit number 1 for this type of gameplay , NTW III should change the name to MTW III .
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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Lord Cosak » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:02 pm

What are you trying to prove with this video? The Russian player does a blob-charge, and loses badly... but you are saying the exact opposite.

In the recent GM7, almost no charges, and every attempt to do so has miserably failed. You should rather focus your rant on real issues, such as embedded artillery or generals used to take guns. Imaginary issues are not worth.

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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Lord Gunner24 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:38 pm

What are you trying to prove with this video?

I thought the same thing at first, but I assume that is is showing blobs smashing into each other.
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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:18 pm

Lord Cosak wrote:What are you trying to prove with this video? The Russian player does a blob-charge, and loses badly... but you are saying the exact opposite.

In the recent GM7, almost no charges, and every attempt to do so has miserably failed. You should rather focus your rant on real issues, such as embedded artillery or generals used to take guns. Imaginary issues are not worth.


Rant ? :lol:
What you or any other Lorz do or have done with this mod , its the best side i fell asleep .

What im trying to prove with a video your in ? You were there ,so do i need to say more ?

Embbebed artillery ? Stop using suicide calvary .Problem solved.
You dont have a chance .
You use cavalry to take artillery in suicide missions and you point the finger to the people that use infantry to protect them from suicidal unrealistic charges ? :rolleyes:
Same talk with squares ,people abuse the cavalry and the Lordz keep improving them more,and than you remove the squares . LOL .

Generals taking art ? An art well developed by your comrades and comrades of other clans .

Embebed art and Generals taking art thats your REALISTIC concern instead of IMAGINARY problems of people using blobs and the removal of square ?
Have you joined NTW III today ?
I dont know if i should laugh or cry.

Your comment just shows everything i already knew , you, as many others, like to use the cavalry ,as everyone knows well ,to force infantry to square to charge with blob infantry , to use cavalry in suicidal mission to get artillery , artillery that are and were the key to win battles ,but ,its not at the patiente and intenlegence of every player on NTW III .
So if you think you offend me by trying to acuse me of using infantry to protect my artillery , your wrong, i can put a cavalry and than what do you say ? What other excuse will you get to remove any chance for people that know how to use artillery and need to protect them from people that play the game unrealistic and exploit it ?
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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Lord Cosak » Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:26 pm

I'm not feeding the troll anymore, my bad.


@ Gunner : the video shows how blob-charging can be easily smashed, the winner of this battle didn't charge at all (not shown in the video, but I was there). This is an ugly display, I agree, but what matters is it fails.
Last edited by Lord Cosak on Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Sloop » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:39 am

Yoyo, the less you say the more we listen.

Gunner, the ground must have moved to coax your old slimy carcass out from under your rock.

Poor Cosak, the harder you try the more you will be criticized.

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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:43 pm

Ahahaha Cosak your hilarious. But what can i do , what counts is the money here,nothing else.

Dont come with the blablabla of my person ,because i had been off of this community for 2 years and during that time , clans disapeered, members have left your clans due conflicts with people that are still there, Lordz have left , Lordz offending each others publicly,mods being created off this communitsy, etc etc.
You have always try to make me Jesus Christ or Germany on WW 2 to blame of all whats bad that hapens on this community ,when the bad is there not here.
You have to convice your person of one thing , i like this mod, i play this mod has very few ,or even no one,plays this mod ,as it should be played and i can deal with any of you here or in real life ,if i have the reason on my side . It has been since day one and it will always be.
I dont need the forum to call any attention,i can do it on my videos, on my steam friends,guides,forums and so on and so on .
And one thing you cant handle is that you dont submit me to any of you has you like to imagine and obligate people to do.

But on the contrary you wish, im still here, promoting this mod as you have never done in your life.

I am the one that i wont loose my time with you . You can keep changing the mod according your person and to counter my gameplay , dont worry , i will beat you anyway.
Good bye.
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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby FvZ » Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:43 pm

Less squares in v6 make me interested, brings back memories from old no square beta version.

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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Lord Gunner24 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:39 pm

Hello fvz, good to see you still around, something I could never say about sloop.

Square or no square ?.......that seems to be the big thing now.

I did once think it was daft to not have a square, when one was possible, however, the CA quick square is probably worse than no square. I do remember ntw2/CB version had no square, and the balance of that game allowed an excellent no square game, so maybe after all this time that is the way to go.

Just allow the "best" units to form the fast square, as a kind of extra ability, but the vast majority of Infantry not able to........everyone would have to be very sure they knew which units could spring the sudden fast square, otherwise attacking Cav will still be caught out.
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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby [N]Clinch » Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:21 am

Goddamn, a thread started about v6 and it turned into a crap throwing shit-show. The fire of this community could have been great had we used our hatred more on the battlefield and less on the forums. I'm guilty of this myself as well. I say f**k the forums. Good to see the ugly mugs of gunner and fvz back :lol:

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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Tac » Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:57 am

Hey sloop good to see your still around,something i could never say about gunner.

Well a rouges gallery wouldn't be a rogues gallery without the biggest rogue.
The mod may change but the forum will always remain,well entertaining.

carry on.

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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Lord Lancier » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:04 am

In fact you are right Gunner :> i knew Sigizmund would blob as usual so i brought a melee army to face him so counter blob with a blob successfully ^^ but then Cosak come with his light cav and landwehr to take my weary men who just completed a mass melee.
Lord Gunner24 wrote:
What are you trying to prove with this video?

I thought the same thing at first, but I assume that is is showing blobs smashing into each other.
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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Lord Lancier » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:09 am

a thread started about v6 and it turned into a crap throwing shit-show

Such always happens when everyone just wait for the the next patch and quit playing the current one ^^

but to the ones who have files of v6 (?) (and others who didnt see any of it yet) i can easily say; square,no square or some square ;> who cares, you didnt see the whole thing yet, a great patch is coming! you wont believe your eyes ^^
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Re: Feelings about NTW3 v6.0 beta

Postby Lord Gunner24 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:51 pm

Good to see the ugly mugs of gunner and fvz back

Thanks, I thought I would never return to ntw3, and most likely I never will, but.................

i brought a melee army to face him so counter blob with a blob successfully

I'd sure not want to be involved in this type of battle. I thought I saw blob v blob.

a great patch is coming! you wont believe your eye

I hope your right, and if you are, you never know who might return to action.

If only everyone here WANTED the old timers to return, rather than wanting them to stay away, perhaps the Lordz Community might one day realise that more players is a good thing, and less is a bad thing, perhaps.......this next v6 might re-launch the mod, together with some more friendly relations between like minded people, rather than having attitudes that only help drive people away.

Best of luck with those trying to do something constructive.
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