Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

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Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby Wym... » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:58 pm

In the new NTW3 Version 6.0 I would like to see the following adjustments/inclusions, all of which will make the mod imo a better more realistic game for all, feel free to comment?

Artillery needs a boost to its RS/canister damage and possibly a moral boost, as very few players are now using Art in game which is preposterous(ineffective in dealing death and to vulnerable to cheap enemy cav)

Horse Artillery also needs a speed boost in limbering,unlimbering,pivoting etc as these are meant to be galloper guns that can keep up with cavalry? So attacking players can effectively use Hrs Art to aid their attacks(after testing the actual move speed seems ok at the walk,thou noticeably slower at the run)

Skirmishers need a accuracy boost as again very few people are using them since they were nurfed from v5

Plz make the LOC unit a FREE COST unit so we can play LOC's on non LOC maps without wasting 500 points

Map previews for the classic HB maps

Any way of remedying the Kiting problem we see when an enemy charges and their opponent kites away with minimal damage(typically with cavalry)

If Poss can you remod the game timer to give us 90 or 120 min etc this will help avoid these silly cat and mouse battles

Unit spacing's need to be adjusted to stop this crazy stacking we all see this will help in reducing the blob charges of stacked units and would also stop people charging cavalry through their own line infantry to target art or increase melee advantage?

Friendly damage as we now see when friendly cavalry is charged through friendly skirmishers needs to be incorporated for all friendly units ie Infantry/Cavalry and artillery..... so when players charge a full regiment of cavalry through friends and foe alike all take the obvious damage....again this will help create a far more realistic mod??

All nations should have at least one pioneer/sapper unit?

As previously discussed guerilla units needs to be employed across to board or heavily curtailed for the current nations who use them?

Again all nations should have a unit or two of say dragoons who can dismount if required? as only the Russians and Swedes have these unit??? which is historically baffling?

The general unit should lose its combat ability totally so the cant target enemy art etc likewise the moral should not adversely effect the enemy only positively effect friendlies etc?

The British needs a boost in either reload or accuracy as in v5?

Talavera,Friedland and Ocena classic HB maps would be far better if the deployment was not the current 50/50 of the map plz set the normal deployment zone depth?

Ziegelhof is unplayable(badly bugged)

bailen deployment is bugged

Coruna deployment 'bottle necks one player who CAN NOT get out which makes the map to unfair

Prussia 4 bugged loc house


Thats about it for now?
Last edited by Wym... on Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:05 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:36 pm

Skirmishers need a movement speed boost(barely moves faster than line inf) and a accuracy boost as again very few people are using them since they were nurfed from v5

I do not think that is something that can be called realistic. The shooters had the order to be hidden on the ground etc .And they had to be quite at it to not be found by recognition squadrons and Hussards. They were not more faster to run than a line infantry.
The skirmisher units should all have the "guerrilla" hability ,wrong term,and to be more harder to spot than any other unit.And when i say harder to be spotten ,im saying really hard. This 2 habilities will make them more close to their realistic role they had .

Friendly damage as we now see when friendly cavalry is charged through friendly skirmishers needs to be incorporated for all friendly units ie Infantry/Cavalry and artillery..... so when players charge a full regiment of cavalry through friends and foe alike all take the obvious damage....again this will help create a far more realistic mod??

I do not agree with this one too. On a charge , the rider has ,or should have ,in the majority of the cases full attention on how and where to use is horse and is sword .
Yes there should be minor casualities,but,i think the solution is , when a cavalry charges through any type of allied unit , it should retard their charge or speed. Avoiding the players to start to charge properly and with realism.
But this should go to any unit,when player blobs,the units should retard the other units moovements. And with this , players should start to avoid to blob up and probably they will begin to march correctly ,in column or in 3 line formation ,as they wish.


All nations should have at least one pioneer/sapper unit?

No.Sappers,Pioneers were a made of special élite soldier.Only major and some medium nations ,that had Academies etc,had that capacity.

The general unit should lose its combat ability totally so the cant target enemy art etc likewise the moral should not adversely effect the enemy only positively effect friendlies etc?

No , several Generals lost their lives on combat.The moral should logically affect the enemy, i think that problem is not from the game ,is from the persons that do not have a NTW III spirit.

The British needs a boost in either reload or accuracy as in v5?

Please no. Great Britain is and has been continuosly being busted more than it should ,like many other nations.Tell me 1 ocasion that 1 single army consisted of only British have won a battle.

On the rest i suport you .
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby White » Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:03 pm

Artillery needs a boost to its RS/canister damage and possibly a moral boost, as very few players are now using Art in game which is preposterous(ineffective in dealing death and to vulnerable to cheap enemy cav)


I do not quite agree with this one, I think artillery is fine how it is and players who choose not to have it is not because of how much damage it deals, but how much of a pain in the a** it is to babysit. If you take a good 6pder and focus fire one unit for a good 5 minutes it will lose around 20 men which in my opinion shows art is plenty strong enough.

Horse Artillery also needs a speed boost in movement,limbering,unlimbering,pivoting etc as these are meant to be galloper guns that can keep up with cavalry? So attacking players can effectively use Hrs Art to aid their attacks


Horse art can keep up with cavalry in my experience?

Unit spacing's need to be adjusted to stop this crazy stacking we all see this will help in reducing the blob charges of stacked units and would also stop people charging cavalry through their own line infantry to target art or increase melee advantage?


You would still be able to move cav through the infantry by squaring and the units are much much much more densely packed in this than vanilla.

All nations should have at least one pioneer/sapper unit?


Sounds good but may encourage people to simply plop themselves on a hill with tons of artillery which just creates the usual DM situation.

As previously discussed guerilla units needs to be employed across to board or heavily curtailed for the current nations who use them?


A lot of people seem to have a massive issue with the Ottomans at the moment, I personally think they are fine and without that guerilla bonus they would not be worth using at all. As for Russian guerilla cav I think this needs to be removed ASAP.

The British needs a boost in either reload or accuracy as in v5?


From my experience in this version I would put the Brits as the second strongest nation behind France. They completely shred units if you take advantage of their bonuses. However I think the British cavalry is still ridiculously overpriced!

Talavera,Friedland and Ocena classic HB maps would be far better if the deployment was not the current 50/50 of the map plz set the normal deployment zone depth?


I'd also like it if there was an actual map preview when choosing the maps rather than these pictures of generals, as well as no fixed spawn zones on HB maps?

I think this version is much better than the previous. Heavy cavalry is now worth taking, the British close range strength makes them more effective than last version and I am finding it much more enjoyable.

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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby Wym... » Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:55 pm

YoYo , the historical Skirmishers were the fittest,most agile,fastest thinking men of the time the acted as a loose shield in front of their line in clear sight of the enemy to specifically target enemy officers and NCO's(hence their greater effectiveness with a long arm) they were attacking,and as all light infantry of their time they were the fastest,in this mod all light infantry moves faster than skirmishers? which is clearly wrong?if I can remember how to create a youtube vid Ill test it on the test map with all units marching/running together

Your point about cavalry knowing where and how to charge may be correct BUT we are talking about a mod were all TW cheats are used for the win at all cost players,the Lordz introduced damage to skirmishers when hit by friendly cav????? why they didnt use the same formula with all friendly units I do not know?( I assume it is not poss?)at the end of the day no one would receive a charge from either sides Hvy Cav and I know what damage would and did occur when friendly were caught by cav damn me they weighed say 1500LBS per man and beast multiply that by a regiments strength??? and owwwwww

Sappers were only big/strong men who could work hard all day it was the engineers who over saw the projects when needed?? ie pontoon bridges/mining/clearing terain for roads/strengthening bridges etc thou I agree some what that lets say all nations rated 15+ can use them?

Again Generals "in game" are used to cheat players out of their art?? and to gain moral bonus's while near the rear of enemies? rather than their obvious duty of managing their own troops?

And White,

you and most others do not use art? for the simple reason its reasonably ineffectual and too vulnerable to even bother with??

Hrs art esp 8lb French and 9lb KGL are all to slow in all disciplines, again I'll test on the test map

yes friendlies may cross through squares but again thats why the Lordz should introduce the same friendly damage formula as they have with skirmishers?? if its at all possible

One sapper will not encourage players to camp??? again how many players actually use them..... we dont??

I would rate the Brits as maybe 4th after French,IG,Russia ish?? but thats down to debate i see mainly France IG and Russia being used in most games where majors fight and again with no art or skirmishers, two vital parts of the Nap war machine

Map previews for classic HB's is a good idea

other than the Hvy cav buff i believe 5.1 is nearly the waekest version since v1 lol Thou I barly remember all the multiple versions since v1
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby Wym... » Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:29 pm

After a quick test with Brits on Test Map using all art, LT/Hvy Cav, Light inf/milita/Reg/Elite/guard inf and Skirmishers here are a few observations

At a walk all unit types were as they should be ish other that foot art(6lb/howi) which both move faster than all line inf?

Hrs art(6lbs/howi) keeps with cav at the walk,BUT at the run even the hvy cav leaves the galloper guns behind let alone the 9lb kgl hrs art?

Skirmishers in close formation keep up with LT inf which is good?i didnt test open formation thou this should make skirmishers faster

All 4 line regiments from milita to guards march and run at the same pace which is wrong?

Just retest skirmisher speed and all was as you would imagine?
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:51 pm

Wym... wrote:YoYo , the historical Skirmishers were the fittest,most agile,fastest thinking men of the time the acted as a loose shield in front of their line in clear sight of the enemy to specifically target enemy officers and NCO's(hence their greater effectiveness with a long arm) they were attacking,and as all light infantry of their time they were the fastest,in this mod all light infantry moves faster than skirmishers? which is clearly wrong?if I can remember how to create a youtube vid Ill test it on the test map with all units marching/running together

Your point about cavalry knowing where and how to charge may be correct BUT we are talking about a mod were all TW cheats are used for the win at all cost players,the Lordz introduced damage to skirmishers when hit by friendly cav????? why they didnt use the same formula with all friendly units I do not know?( I assume it is not poss?)at the end of the day no one would receive a charge from either sides Hvy Cav and I know what damage would and did occur when friendly were caught by cav damn me they weighed say 1500LBS per man and beast multiply that by a regiments strength??? and owwwwww

Sappers were only big/strong men who could work hard all day it was the engineers who over saw the projects when needed?? ie pontoon bridges/mining/clearing terain for roads/strengthening bridges etc thou I agree some what that lets say all nations rated 15+ can use them?

Again Generals "in game" are used to cheat players out of their art?? and to gain moral bonus's while near the rear of enemies? rather than their obvious duty of managing their own troops?



First my friend ,im not any yoyo,after 5 years its pronounced oivio or Pedro Motta.I am sure you would not like me to pronounce your name or username as i want , like wywy.

Maybe in Great Britain skirmishers had the need to run off from cavalry constantly.
Not with the Atiradores Portugueses.This class was trained to be close to Line or to a close point to retreat, or on the flanks and look up for officers, harrass artillery,Line infantry forcing them to advance or retreat against their will.
The skirmishs were not like that as you imagine.No one would risk a cavalry squadron to go after a skirmish company and vice versa.They would never risk to be exposed.Quote me a historical episode where a isolated skirmisher company had to run from cavalry and escaped.Because if you want them to run more ,its because ,in several episodes they had escaped from cavalry ... or else why would you want them more faster since they are already the fastest foot infantry in the game ? If you get a real quote ,i´ll give you that ,but, still i do not think that is vital for the game. Light infantry are not skirmishes and vice versa.
The shooters of the Kingdom of Portugal never had the need to run ,but to shoot well and to hide even better.
The solutions i have presented ,where you did not said nothing about them , were better than the one you are writting.
They are already fast enough.
Thats my opinion.

As i said, implement more capacity on the hidden status and the problem is solved.

Sappers ,pioneers,engineers were veteran soldiers,all,it was not like 5 lumberjack and 1 university engineer,therefore i should not had the need say more. élite that had to knew enginnering,dealing with tunels and bombs,knowing the terrain on where to built,the places,build defensive structures,strong phisically,psicology=morally,better in combat ,even better on melee and alot of courage due the years of services,and as in several ocasions they were the first line and had to work under fire.The true ancestors of today élite soldier my friend ,for a militar fan , you should know this . A example, if you reach on a river,or you know that you will have to pass through there ,on a certain point of the map,who will build you a bridge for your army to pass underfire and or that has to eliminate garrisson troops without sounding the alarms of the enemy armies to run to that point .
Yes those "only big/strong men " and im surprised that your saying that sappers were just like lumber jack man .
Their name will evolve to engineers on WW1 and WW2 .
Therefore their training was specific not for all .
Show us the names,links,books,registers of the sappers and or pioneers companies of all those nations and i will be the first one to be next to you .

Generals are soldiers,if they had to combat they would.Period. Why dont you get some courage and start to demand and discuss with the players that explore the Generals ? Demand a rule on your hosts where no one can move the General from the deployment.
Another solution that would solve that ,is just remove the "armor" that the Generals have,no one will send them in suicidal missions anymore or bring them to action.
Now remove the only 3 habilities they have ,rally,inspire and a aura with moral , no. Just delete the unit then ,like with the Dragons ,a typical proceedure to spare work.
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby Wym... » Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:14 pm

I apologize M8 no offence meant lol but you are lovingly know as yoyo and its far easier to type.... but oivio or Pedro Motta my friend I am trying to suggest options to make the mod more realistic while still being enjoyable, my comments on your 3 points are factual based only on the Peninsular war as I'm uneducated in the other theatres of war though I guess these would apply to other nations....... and after teat skirmisher speeds they look in keeping with what I've read thought there abilities with long arms should revert back to v5 and along with Grenadiers those two companies were the 'elites' of most armies line battalions....and at the end of the day most players do not use them? as they are considered poor value? though I know we both use them even though they have been nurfed

Sappers were the toughest strongest men with remarkable constitutions and yes they would dig/cut all day long and most projects were managed by these sapper teams....engineers supervisors were only used when more complicated engineering works where needed.....and again in game terms most nations certainly had sappers though qualified engineers were harder to find?

and my points on Generals are to help counter those who would cheat with them?
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:22 pm

Wym... wrote:I apologize M8 no offence meant lol but you are lovingly know as yoyo and its far easier to type.... but oivio or Pedro Motta my friend I am trying to suggest options to make the mod more realistic while still being enjoyable, my comments on your 3 points are factual based only on the Peninsular war as I'm uneducated in the other theatres of war though I guess these would apply to other nations....... and after teat skirmisher speeds they look in keeping with what I've read thought there abilities with long arms should revert back to v5 and along with Grenadiers those two companies were the 'elites' of most armies line battalions....and at the end of the day most players do not use them? as they are considered poor value? though I know we both use them even though they have been nurfed

Sappers were the toughest strongest men with remarkable constitutions and yes they would dig/cut all day long and most projects were managed by these sapper teams....engineers supervisors were only used when more complicated engineering works where needed.....and again in game terms most nations certainly had sappers though qualified engineers were harder to find?

and my points on Generals are to help counter those who would cheat with them?


Apologizes accepted ,accept my apologizes for thinking that you were trying to disrespect or provoque me .
About the General i understand and im with you , im with you even in all your aspects ,just the ones i quote , i think it is not the best solution,but i agree they should be changed in something . Sorry if i seemed arrogant or mad ,it was not my intention.
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby Wym... » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:31 pm

NP M8 though its good to hear that another old timer who knows the mod like you agrees with most points......I'm wondering what the Lordz collective think about my thoughts??

I've retested skirmisher speed and it seems in keeping with history, their accuracy imo needs a buff as they were renowned for successfully targeting officers and NCO's....if not an accuracy buff a moral modifier bonus to replicate the enemy loosing cohesion due to lack of orders etc?

I guess the argument about sappers is not that important(in game terms)as most players myself included rarely use them??
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:50 pm

:hm:
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby Wym... » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:10 am

Prussia 4 map bug As posted already....A 1 pointer on lower left side of mini map has a bug where men can enter it from across the map.
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby Lord Cosak » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:14 am

Thank you for your many suggestions. The Lordz are currently working on a major update.

Dismounting (Spain, Sweden, Russia) shouldn't be possible any more, as it barely never happened, ie. the French "Dragons à pieds" existed only because the French has no more horses. Moreover it has an unwanted side-effect, like the Russian Konie Yegerya spam we can see in many battles.

Skirmishers are effective but too vulnerable. We're working on either making them more effective... or less vulnerable.

Far from all nations had sappers.

The British infantry already has a nice boost in accuracy and reloading. Its heavies are the best after the Imperial Guard, Russia and Saxony. Although UK will get a little help in another way.

The general unit already has 0 in melee, it can't be even lower. Another option is make the general unit like any other scout cavalry (26 men), as vulnerable as others. So it could be killed easily when used to seize artillery. We need your opinion on this.

Thank you for any feedback or reply (and sorry for my clumsy English).

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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby White » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:10 pm

The British infantry already has a nice boost in accuracy and reloading. Its heavies are the best after the Imperial Guard, Russia and Saxony. Although UK will get a little help in another way.


The Brits are getting another boost? :indifferent: They are already insanely strong

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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:12 pm

Lord Cosak wrote:Another option is make the general unit like any other scout cavalry (26 men), as vulnerable as others. So it could be killed easily when used to seize artillery. We need your opinion on this.


I like this one.
About the dismount, i do not agree . You have right that the Dragons did not commonly expose themselves on those foot actions ,but,it happened. As i wrote previously, just because people do not use it , this mod should not ignore it . This hability was avaible some time ago and it was rare for the ones that used it , as it happened in real time ,so , if the player uses that hability in specific cases ,corresponding to the reality, why remove it .

Another aspect i would like to add ,please, diminishe the Spanish artillery and the entire rooster in quality and quality (or start to increase the rooster with other factions that were stronguer ),give back the numbers per battalion that Russia had that were correctly corresponding to their actual numbers (we all know they were reduced to reinforce their speed and maneuveribility in the field) and also diminish Italy,its absurd how they are strong in all the aspects .
This 3 factions are the pure example of Lordz creating their favourite factions overpowered just because its their favourite factions .
Stop with this please.
And also i have to say as a fan of Napoleonic wars , i am very disapointed by the majority of the Lordz did not accepted the creation of a sub-mod where the factions were made of the begining of the war ,the end of XVIII century .Separate the comunity ? You should ask them first . Or, HB did it split the community ? How will split anyone ? Dont you all play other games ? Please.


Keep up the work.
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby Lord Cosak » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:43 pm

oOIYvYIOo wrote:if the player uses that hability in specific cases ,corresponding to the reality


That's the moot point: it's not corresponding to the reality.

When horseman had horses, they kept sitting on it, it was far too valuable. To be honest it happened quite often in the Seven Years War, but not in the Napoleonic wars, except in the Russian-Ottoman war in the Caucasus (at small scale).

It's not a matter of gameplay, but history.



oOIYvYIOo wrote:Another aspect i would like to add ,please, diminishe the Spanish artillery and the entire rooster in quality and quality


Except for two guard units (each capped to 1), Spain has no good shooting infantry, as should be. 80 % of its infantry has 18 or less in accuracy, and it has the worst dragoons in game (with Portugal). Though I'll take your remark in consideration regarding their morale, as the Spanish army was especially undisciplined and unreliable (ie. Talavera).



oOIYvYIOo wrote:give back the numbers per battalion that Russia had that were correctly corresponding to their actual numbers (we all know they were reduced to reinforce their speed and maneuveribility in the field)


Russia's numbers didn't decrease to move faster, but because the Russian army was never larger than the French in all their numerous battles. The only important battle where Russians were far more than French, they got a bad beating (Friedland).

Here are most of major battles from 1812 to 1814 (Russian troops didn't fight in 1815). For the Grande Armée I count only French men, not counting Poles, Italians, etc.

  • Beginning of 1812 Russian campaign: 480,000 French - 350,000 Russians
  • Smolensk (1812): 160,000 French - 130,000 Russians
  • Viazma (1812): 23,000 French - 25,000 Russian
  • Borodino (1812): 115,00 French - 120,000 Russians
  • Berezina (1812): 80,000 French - 55,000 Russians
  • Maloyaroslavets (1812): 15,000 French - 16,000 Russians
  • Leipzig (1813): 175,000 French - 190,000 Russians
  • Montmirail (1814): 16,000 French - 18,000 Russians


As a result of these clear data, your suggestion is inaccurate and can't be followed. Actually the Russian regiments should be smaller than they are now in v5.1.



oOIYvYIOo wrote: and also diminish Italy,its absurd how they are strong in all the aspects


Agreed, some nations will be stronger, some weaker, and Italy is already amongst the latter ones.

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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:43 pm

Cosak,thank you for responding and giving your opinion.
On the Dragons ,you have your opinion i have mine .There were cases ,therefore , it should be possible.
No one uses pioneers to build up tunnels,bridges,mines,etc on the game either , you should remove them by your logic.
About Spain , you did not mentioned nothing about artillery. Spain did not had a regular army for some years , the battalions were suplied by Spanish noblemen with their local combatants.
Quality was none ,in all military aspects,moral yes they had ,but what is moral without discipline or training.
And since moral INGAME represents courage and discipline equal training, 2 aspects quite diferents,you are right they should be diminished.
18,23 of accuracy of average for Spanish soldiers, its quite amazing comparing with France that is around 21,71 (lines and milita ,i did not included skirmishes) .

About the justification you have presented of the Russians armies to justify the reduction of the units ,its a example that has no since .
The number of a battalion does not correspond to the number of men on their armies .

Russia
"As with all armies of the Napoleonic era,the strenght of the forces depended much on losses sustained during campaign.The theoretical strenght of the regiments mobilized for the 1812 campaign,for example,was 1,476 men in two battalions(700`s men per battalion).The Russian battalions present at the Battle of Bautzen in May 1813,however,averaged 150-200 men each. (...) Most battalions were brought up to 500 to 600 men, but many regiments could muster only one battalion."

France
"A decree of 18 of February 1808 officially structured each regiment around four bataillons de guerre and one depot battalion,the latter of which had four companies under the command of a senior captain.The bataillons de guerre each had four fusilier companies and one grenadier and one voltigeur company.Total regiment establishment would be just under 4,000 men (4,000 / by 5.5 battalions = 363) .In later Napoleonic campaigns ,aditional battalions were added to existing regiments."

Double of the men per battalion.
If you need the exact numbers of companies ,officers,captains,etc i can write to you .
I have wrote in several ocasions during this 5 years on this forum,forgive my audacity , i wrote only when i know that im correct and this was another example.

About Italy ,thank you .
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:55 pm

I forgot to add ,once more ,that this game should be delineated to company scale. Each battalion on this game ,in medium size ,corresponds almost to a company number .I can bring around 10 units in game ,corresponding to 5 battalions equal 2 regiments.
So 2 players would represent 1 army and 4 players would represent 2 armies.
Generals would pass to be Colonels or Captains , the real General is each one of us.
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby Lord Davn » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:04 am

oOIYvYIOo wrote:I forgot to add ,once more ,that this game should be delineated to company scale. Each battalion on this game ,in medium size ,corresponds almost to a company number .I can bring around 10 units in game ,corresponding to 5 battalions equal 2 regiments.
So 2 players would represent 1 army and 4 players would represent 2 armies.

Does that take into account that the NTW3 MP battle mod is based on a 6-1 scale :question:
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:33 am

Lord Davn wrote:Does that take into account that the NTW3 MP battle mod is based on a 6-1 scale :question:


I do not know what that means ,the only scale i know is 1/72 .
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby Lord Cosak » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:02 am

oOIYvYIOo wrote:France
"A decree of 18 of February 1808 officially structured each regiment around four bataillons de guerre and one depot battalion,the latter of which had four companies under the command of a senior captain.The bataillons de guerre each had four fusilier companies and one grenadier and one voltigeur company.Total regiment establishment would be just under 4,000 men (4,000 / by 5.5 battalions = 363) .In later Napoleonic campaigns ,aditional battalions were added to existing regiments."

Double of the men per battalion.
If you need the exact numbers of companies ,officers,captains,etc i can write to you .
I have wrote in several ocasions during this 5 years on this forum,forgive my audacity , i wrote only when i know that im correct and this was another example.


Nice, but wrong. If Russia's army in the early 19th century had followed all the laws and rules, they wouldn't have lost Moscow in four months, and cossacks wouldn't loot that often instead of fighting (huge chaos in Krasnoie, Montmirail, Smolensk). So using a article of law to debate about Russia in 1806-1815 is all but thorough. Actually this also applies to Russia in 2016...

After the campaign against the Ottomans in 1812, Russia had three different organizations for each of its armies.

1. North, against Sweden, after seizing Finland in 1811
2. South in the Caucases and Bessarabia against Ottomans
3. Center, against the French

Only the 3rd army interests us, as the 1st and second were far smaller and barely fought the Grande Armée.

In this army from 10 to 40% of officialyl declared soldiers just didn't exist. Officers stole the pay from the non-existing soldiers.

Few examples taken randomly from different years and battles:
  • In 1805, at Austerlitz, Monakhtin unit: officially 1300 men, only 900 were on the field
  • In 1807, at Friedland, Tula unit: officially 1850 men, only 1400 on the field
  • In 1812, at Maloyaroslavets, Ryazan unit: 1700 -> 1400

There were indeed some huge batallions, mostly when too many officers were killed or wounded, then they merged several batallions in one (it happened at lot in July/August 1812, and early 1813, also because of desertions of many Prussian/Danish officers in the Russian army). That's why the basic musketeer units have 163 men in NTW3. For other units, the Russians have the right size, and should even be smaller (that's what was done for the light infantry and the guard).

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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:59 pm

Lord Cosak wrote:Nice, but wrong. If Russia's army in the early 19th century had followed all the laws and rules, they wouldn't have lost Moscow in four months, and cossacks wouldn't loot that often instead of fighting (huge chaos in Krasnoie, Montmirail, Smolensk). So using a article of law to debate about Russia in 1806-1815 is all but thorough. Actually this also applies to Russia in 2016...

After the campaign against the Ottomans in 1812, Russia had three different organizations for each of its armies.

1. North, against Sweden, after seizing Finland in 1811
2. South in the Caucases and Bessarabia against Ottomans
3. Center, against the French

Only the 3rd army interests us, as the 1st and second were far smaller and barely fought the Grande Armée.

In this army from 10 to 40% of officialyl declared soldiers just didn't exist. Officers stole the pay from the non-existing soldiers.

Few examples taken randomly from different years and battles:
  • In 1805, at Austerlitz, Monakhtin unit: officially 1300 men, only 900 were on the field
  • In 1807, at Friedland, Tula unit: officially 1850 men, only 1400 on the field
  • In 1812, at Maloyaroslavets, Ryazan unit: 1700 -> 1400

There were indeed some huge batallions, mostly when too many officers were killed or wounded, then they merged several batallions in one (it happened at lot in July/August 1812, and early 1813, also because of desertions of many Prussian/Danish officers in the Russian army). That's why the basic musketeer units have 163 men in NTW3. For other units, the Russians have the right size, and should even be smaller (that's what was done for the light infantry and the guard).



Ah : "As with all armies of the Napoleonic era,the strenght of the forces depended much on losses sustained during campaign."

You dont even read what i write/quote ,you just say no, than you write the same thing , giving me complete reason.
Im not quoting my personal if´s as you ,im quoting real documents,quoting real books.

I will not loose my time any longer with a person that denies quotes from one of the most prestigious Napoleonic armies books wrote by the most prestigious pulisher of warfare.
And im chocked that your saying that a military command order text must not be taken in consideration :shocked: .
Still your examples do not have any bases to justify the decisions of decreasing the units ,on the contrary your examples just suport me.

In the entire war ,the biggest battalion of a French army did not passed 400 men while the biggest Russian battalion passed the 700 men .
Double, where do you see that on NTW III ?

So if ingame a french battalion have 123 men a Russian one should at least have 200 period.

You dont , you changed it to improve the speed of the units .

There is nothing else to say here i do not know why you ask for opinions when you keep deniyng them just for your pleasure .

Not a single time anyone wrote anything about Cossaks.Cossacks were a completly independent Corp.

I have gave my opinion,not a debate.As always you take what you wish from it .
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby Wym... » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:34 pm

Lord Cosak wrote:Thank you for your many suggestions. The Lordz are currently working on a major update.


Thx Cosak......what points will be added/changed for this patch? I assume the following will be addressed if modable?

Make the LOC unit a FREE COST unit so we can play LOC's on non LOC maps without wasting 500 points

The general unit should lose its ability to drive the limbers away when targeting enemy artillery?and possibly the ability to reduce enemies moral when in contact?

Map previews for the classic HB maps

If Poss can you remod the game timer to give us 60, 90 and 120 min etc this will help avoid these silly cat and mouse battles

Talavera,Friedland and Ocena classic HB maps would be far better if the deployment was not the current 50/50 of the map plz set the normal deployment zone depth?

Ziegelhof is unplayable(badly bugged)

bailen deployment is bugged

Coruna deployment 'bottle necks one player who CAN NOT get out which makes the map to unfair

Prussia 4 bugged loc house

And most importantly........Friendly damage as we now see when friendly cavalry is charged through friendly skirmishers needs to be incorporated for all friendly units ie Infantry/Cavalry and artillery..... so when players charge a full regiment of cavalry through friends and foe alike all take the obvious damage....again this will help create a far more realistic mod??

though imo all my points first posted will make this a more historically accurate playable game with less TW cheats?
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby White » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:42 pm

so when players charge a full regiment of cavalry through friends and foe alike all take the obvious damage....again this will help create a far more realistic mod??


Sadly I think you would still be able to go through units forming square and still be able to pass through the lines by just running and not charging.

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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby Wym... » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:52 pm

White wrote:
so when players charge a full regiment of cavalry through friends and foe alike all take the obvious damage....again this will help create a far more realistic mod??


Sadly I think you would still be able to go through units forming square and still be able to pass through the lines by just running and not charging.


Indeed...... but your friendly inf forming square to allow your cav to cheat through them would suffer proportional damage?? its the damage to friendlies above the actual inaccurate 'passing through' which would put all players off this TW cheat......The Lordz managed the friendly damage to Skirmishers???so I hope its possible to incorporate the same damage to friendly Line Inf? Art? and Cav etc??
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Re: Changes to NTW3 v6.0 that will improve gameplay

Postby Lord Cosak » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:23 pm

oOIYvYIOo wrote:You dont , you changed it to improve the speed of the units .

There is nothing else to say here i do not know why you ask for opinions when you keep deniyng them just for your pleasure .

Not a single time anyone wrote anything about Cossaks.Cossacks were a completly independent Corp.


In NTW3, a unit with 500 men could run faster than a one with 10. Size and speed aren't related. So your accusation is preposterous...

In war, what matters is the battlefield, not what a nobleman wrote in Paris or St Petersburg. You focus only on deliberations, I prefer to refer to what happened for real, and who fought... not who was supposed to fight. I mentioned cossacks to prove Russian laws and texts weren't hardly applied on the field, it also applied to infantry. By the way you said all cossacks were compeletely independent, which is also wrong. Platov was under Bagration's command, and every Russian division had its fair amount of embedded cossacks.



@Wym:
  • We try to fix some known unstability issues
  • The general will always be able to unlimber artillery, it's not moddable; though we're discussing what to do with the general unit
  • The timer could be adjusted in HB battles, but it's a constant there (not adjustable, or even cancellable)
  • Deploy zones should be fixed
  • Theres a binary choice: tiehr cavalry can easily walk through your own infantry, and it can trampled/kill your own men when charging... or infantry blocks cavalry and can't be trampled. A change here might not be welcome, and if so, it'd require long tests. White is right that what causes friendly kills amongst your own skirmishers is charging, not just running through.
  • Numerous new/updated units expected, and some kind of new factions


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