v5.1 patch release

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Lord Davn
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby Lord Davn » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:06 pm

oOIYvYIOo wrote:I got some photos of the Granaderos of Tenerife and the line infantry and also granaderos de Málaga from the museums i have visited this last months and from several Spanish ships and Almirant paintings if your interested Davn.
I'll be happy to take a look at them and see if we can work them into the info cards. I'm sure you still have my email address.
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby Lord Davn » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:04 pm

Uxbridge wrote:The Guipuzcoan and Almerian (which should now be named Toledo) regiments are still in wrong colours on the unit card
These should look a little better :mrgreen:
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby Seimour01 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:45 pm

This may not be the place for this but it's as good a place as any.

One of the problem that could be fixed with cavalry is that its far too vulnerable to artillery. Poking around in the files, what one sees is that cavalrymen are the tallest soldiers in game. The horse hitboxes and the soldiers are huge compared to infantry target. I think this is the reason that a canonball will kill 8 cuirassiers no problem at long range but wont be as effective against infantry.

The general on the other hand, is a tiny target and is thus hard to hit. Maybe a slight reduction of the rider's height in the file could help because if the heavy cavalry is too expensive and is on top of that, so vulnerable to artillery that even a missed shot will down 5 men at long range.


My second complaint concerns 12 pounders. At the moment, it's all I see on the battlefield. My only issue with them is that canister is too effective at long range. It can do tremendous damage well over its range limit and is so effective It can be easily used against other artilleries to kill 1-2 men a tick. It's worse against infantry. At mid round shot range, canister will do consistently more damage as it isn't hampered by terrain and it doesn't seem to drop as much as it should.

I've never heard of widespread canister duels in artillery battles of the era. I understand that 12 pounders use to be underrepresented but they are far too effective to the point of being unrealistic. The round-shots are fine but surely a hard cap can be set on canister to prevent it going beyond range?
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:34 pm

Lord Davn wrote: I'll be happy to take a look at them and see if we can work them into the info cards. I'm sure you still have my email address.


I do not think i have saved it.Maybe from our pm´s here on the forum i will have to look.
It will take me some time has the pictures belong of a collection of over 5,000 pictures of Military and Archaeological Museums, Military Quarters that are part also of the trip i had .And I will take sometime to have everything organized.
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby Chromey » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:10 pm

Agree with Seimour about the heavy cav being a bit too vulnerable to artillery. Perhaps make them the same size as light cav? Heavy cav have it hard enough as is.
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby Seimour01 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:24 pm

Chromey wrote:Agree with Seimour about the heavy cav being a bit too vulnerable to artillery. Perhaps make them the same size as light cav? Heavy cav have it hard enough as is.

They are the biggest units in the game in terms of hitboxes. To quote someone else from the forum, they are supposedly "pampered reserves". At the moment, they are mostly overpriced canon magnets.

Ill still insist on canister range needing to be toned down. It's insane how far it can bring death unless we started using shrapnel shots and I wasn't told.
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next patch suggestion

Postby CeltiberoFrog » Thu May 07, 2015 11:23 am

In case there gonna be a 5.1 patch :

- I would humbly recommand to either increase artillery cost or decrease its efficiency.
Battles have become artillery kingdom, and often not proportional with 2 to 3 art units in one army.
This does not regard howitzer issue.

- Militias & recruts should not have squarre ability

- Question about the separated French imperial guard : Does it make sense ? as the Major French nation remains the only major without Elite units.
I do like the Imperial guard, but could other major nations have also their own guard division ?

- Tricky bug : Cavalry charges order through one friendly infantry line (even from long distance), makes that cavalry unit scatter/extend enabling it to reach targeted artillery with much less kills & less morale drop.

- Could we decrease the cost of heavy cavalries ? today we hardly see heavier than dragoons deployed. I really miss them especially from the major nations. Unless we setup large founds battles (that is not usual in multi).

thx for your remarks

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Re: next patch suggestion

Postby Lord Davn » Thu May 07, 2015 12:07 pm

CeltiberoFrog wrote:In case there gonna be a 5.1 patch :
PLEASE POST any suggestions for the v51 patch on this thread so we can keep everything in one place: http://www.thelordz.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=15495&start=25
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby Lord Lancier » Thu May 07, 2015 12:19 pm

CeltiberoFrog wrote:In case there gonna be a 5.1 patch :

- I would humbly recommand to either increase artillery cost or decrease its efficiency.
Battles have become artillery kingdom, and often not proportional with 2 to 3 art units in one army.
This does not regard howitzer issue.

- Militias & recruts should not have squarre ability

- Question about the separated French imperial guard : Does it make sense ? as the Major French nation remains the only major without Elite units.
I do like the Imperial guard, but could other major nations have also their own guard division ?

- Tricky bug : Cavalry charges order through one friendly infantry line (even from long distance), makes that cavalry unit scatter/extend enabling it to reach targeted artillery with much less kills & less morale drop.

- Could we decrease the cost of heavy cavalries ? today we hardly see heavier than dragoons deployed. I really miss them especially from the major nations. Unless we setup large founds battles (that is not usual in multi).

thx for your remarks

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NTW3 Ver. 5-(5.1)-6 (Jan 2015 – Nov 2016)
NTW2 & NTW3 Ver. 1-2-3 (Sep 2009 – June 2013)

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Re: next patch suggestion

Postby TPGV Cincinnato » Thu May 07, 2015 3:22 pm

CeltiberoFrog wrote:In case there gonna be a 5.1 patch :

- I would humbly recommand to either increase artillery cost or decrease its efficiency.
Battles have become artillery kingdom, and often not proportional with 2 to 3 art units in one army.
This does not regard howitzer issue.

- Militias & recruts should not have squarre ability

- Question about the separated French imperial guard : Does it make sense ? as the Major French nation remains the only major without Elite units.
I do like the Imperial guard, but could other major nations have also their own guard division ?

- Tricky bug : Cavalry charges order through one friendly infantry line (even from long distance), makes that cavalry unit scatter/extend enabling it to reach targeted artillery with much less kills & less morale drop.

- Could we decrease the cost of heavy cavalries ? today we hardly see heavier than dragoons deployed. I really miss them especially from the major nations. Unless we setup large founds battles (that is not usual in multi).

thx for your remarks

I completely agree!

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Re: next patch suggestion

Postby Sloop » Thu May 07, 2015 8:44 pm

TPGV Cincinnato wrote: I completely agree!
I agree with everything as well, except for the artillery suggestion. I must admit I am not a proponent of artillery however I usually bring one inexpensive battery simply for "realism." This battery is rarely unlimbered as I have little use for it except to satisfy the communities' expectations. How terrible to be called a spamming exploiter. What I do exploit is maneuver and I can not maneuver effectively with cumbersome artillery, by the time it is unlimbered the fight is somewhere else.

I can not comment on the historical balance of force builds, however as a matter of game balance artillery seems too expensive to me:

Spammed artillery can only be highly effective on a map with perfect defensive camper's terrain and no timer or objectives.
The more artillery the opponent fields the more static his army and the more weakened his infantry and cavalry builds.
A commander cannot be timid and sacrifice initiative to avoid casualties from artillery fire; time is against you so attack the opponent quickly, artillery is expensive so he is weaker than you at the start.
Artillery requires a garrison and a line; the line has flanks that must be defended, the attacker has the initiative with more offensive capability while the defender must react.

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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby Lord Davn » Thu May 07, 2015 9:52 pm

(moved here from wrong thread)
Sloop wrote:I agree with everything as well, except for the artillery suggestion. I must admit I am not a proponent of artillery however I usually bring one inexpensive battery simply for "realism." This battery is rarely unlimbered as I have little use for it except to satisfy the communities' expectations. How terrible to be called a spamming exploiter. What I do exploit is maneuver and I can not maneuver effectively with cumbersome artillery, by the time it is unlimbered the fight is somewhere else.

I can not comment on the historical balance of force builds, however as a matter of game balance artillery seems too expensive to me:

Spammed artillery can only be highly effective on a map with perfect defensive camper's terrain and no timer or objectives.
The more artillery the opponent fields the more static his army and the more weakened his infantry and cavalry builds.
A commander cannot be timid and sacrifice initiative to avoid casualties from artillery fire; time is against you so attack the opponent quickly, artillery is expensive so he is weaker than you at the start.
Artillery requires a garrison and a line; the line has flanks that must be defended, the attacker has the initiative with more offensive capability while the defender must react.
“This was their finest hour!” ~Winston Churchill

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Re: next patch suggestion

Postby Lord Davn » Thu May 07, 2015 9:55 pm

POST SUGGESTIONS for the v51 PATCH ON THIS THREAD:
http://www.thelordz.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=15495&start=25
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby Lord Davn » Thu May 07, 2015 11:16 pm

The v51 patch includes seven new Spanish units that Uxbridge had previously made uniform files for.
We also added a Portuguese Sapper unit with Da Motta's help. Lord Avon will fine tune the stats for these new units.
Last edited by Lord Davn on Mon May 11, 2015 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Fri May 08, 2015 12:58 am

How Spain continue to be worked (and a bit custom) and other nations continue to be ignored ...
A random line Infantry with 80 of reload ?
40 of morale ??????
Spanish soldier was the most terrible soldier that existed in all Europe on those times on all the aspects !
More artillery ,Real Artilharia correct, but not the 2 12p and the 4 pounders that exists in the mod with those stats,never.
During years on Napoleonic Wars Spain did not had a regular professional forces for months,they fought for months in guerrilla warfare while Portugal had is "new" army fighting real battles.Everyone knows it.The Spanish joined the Luso-Anglo army periodically ,because they did not had a professional,organized army for months if not for years.
Only by August of 1813 Spain manage to have 43,000 men on the Luso-Anglo army, but in April of 1814 it was on 30,000 due their very low quality,loyalty and professionalism giging them high casualties.10 to 20,000 were fighting with the Sicilians and English in Valência. The remain 100,000 were guerrillas made of the people.
The ocupation occured in 1807 :exclaim:
YEARS fighting without a real army or having a real battle !!!!!!!

Only 18 of acuracy for a élite unit ! For a Sapador that received the same trainig of a Grenadier ??

Portugal was on the vanguard compared with Spain (or many other European Countries) in military training,weaponry,studies and so on .It was a World Power.
It had pocessions in north and south of Africa,South America,India,China,south east Asia how was it maintained by honey ?
How many Spanish "historical" battalions need to be created in this mod to make Spain strong ?
I had to beg for the creation of the only existent ingame historical regiment of line infantry the 1º Regimento ,of Portugal out of the 24th Regiments that were created ? 24 .All of them fought in Portugal theater,Spain and south of France.
Enough is enough please.
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby Lord Davn » Fri May 08, 2015 4:38 am

oOIYvYIOo wrote:How Spain continue to be worked (and a bit custom) and other nations continue to be ignored ...
A random line Infantry with 80 of reload ?
If you can provide me with uniform variant files for new Portugal units I will be more than happy to add them.
As noted, these are preliminary stats and will be adjusted by Lord Avon.
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby FireTight » Fri May 08, 2015 7:48 am

I would like to ask if there're any chances of (re)creating our 47th (Czech) regiment in Austrian army, possibly with czech dubbing as well.

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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Fri May 08, 2015 8:31 am

Lord Davn wrote:
oOIYvYIOo wrote:How Spain continue to be worked (and a bit custom) and other nations continue to be ignored ...
A random line Infantry with 80 of reload ?
If you can provide me with uniform variant files for new Portugal units I will be more than happy to add them.
As noted, these are preliminary stats and will be adjusted by Lord Avon.


My apologizes, i was a bit to much excited or happy last night :mrgreen: .
I have supplied it in several ocasions Davn,not only for you but even before the time i told you to become a Lordz.
Spain had so many diferent uniforms due ,as i said, the Regiments were raised by local Lords.
With Portugal , the army was re-created as a real professional army ,wiht ex-soldiers that were disbanded when France came to Portugal,with standard uniforms.

But i have send images,historical background for new and old units that already exist ingame. I can copy-paste to here again if needed.
Just to name few of the messages i wrote to you :

Reg. de Art. nº1 de São Julião da Barra
Dragões de Olivença,Reg. de Cavalaria nº 3
Regimento de Cavalaria Ligeira nº4 de Meclemburgo
Regimento de Guarda Real da Policia a pé nº1
Esquadrão de Guarda Real da Policia a Cavalo nº1


No need to continue .
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby Lord Uxbridge » Fri May 08, 2015 10:37 am

Motta these units for Spain have not been newly created but were in the files already from v3. Furthermore, adding new units does not necessarily make a faction stronger but gives more variation which is one of the few plus points the Spanish roster has.

You have some very "unusual" opinions on the history of the Spanish army so I won't argue with you as we have been down this road before and I'll let you believe what you wish to believe on that score.

Send me a link to the post with the info/pics on the Portuguese units you are talking about and maybe I can help put the variants together for Davn.

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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby Lord Fullin » Fri May 08, 2015 1:58 pm

Great work with the info cards
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby Lord Davn » Fri May 08, 2015 2:28 pm

Lord Fullin wrote:Great work with the info cards
Appreciate your approval Lord Fullin,
AL and I have been working on them to show off the excellent uniforms that you & Uxbridge made for NTW3 mod.
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Fri May 08, 2015 3:53 pm

Uxbridge wrote:You have some very "unusual" opinions on the history of the Spanish army so I won't argue with you as we have been down this road before and I'll let you believe what you wish to believe on that score.

Uxbridge,the diference betwen you and me ,is that on the contrary of you ,i do not say to you that i am the correct one and that your wrong one.
Your the one that keep questioning my point of view over and over,and after some years ,its not a discussion or a conversation, its just being rude.
You are far from being a expert ,as im far from being a expert also.
And for what i know there is not a single person on this forum that is a expert, doctorate,historian,etc ,so i do not have to take anyone opinion for granted.
Just like you just dont take my opinion for granted when i write my opinion about Spain.
So stop it please.
Uxbridge wrote:Send me a link to the post with the info/pics on the Portuguese units you are talking about and maybe I can help put the variants together for Davn.


Thank you for your ofter,but i have already lost many many days,weeks presenting works,of links,of pictures,of the history of the units,ten of messages sent to Fullin in the past and now to Davn ,ten of topics and posts all around this forum in the years i am a member on this forum.
Im not in the disposal of doing that all over again .
My last "work" was sent about portuguese units was huge and detailed at maxim aspect,at least for my opinion.

But for real,thank you for your ofter.If your trully interested ,maybe Davn can provide the messages i sent to him during this last months or look up for my topics.
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby .ALDi » Fri May 08, 2015 4:34 pm

I would like to see Hessen/Baden as a big minor again and keep them also as separated factions.
Last edited by .ALDi on Tue May 19, 2015 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby FireTight » Fri May 08, 2015 4:48 pm

My question still stands. :)

FireTight wrote:I would like to ask if there're any chances of (re)creating our 47th (Czech) regiment in Austrian army, possibly with czech dubbing as well.

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Re: next patch suggestion

Postby Sloop » Fri May 08, 2015 6:25 pm

"Tricky Bug" I have used a form of this "tactic" to catch infantry unawares or force them into square with less risk to the cavalry. I find the exploit too cumbersome and the time & management effort to taxing to be used frequently. I never thought to use it for artillery, I must try it, thank you Froggie.


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