v5.1 patch release

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v5.1 patch release

Postby Lord Davn » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:52 pm

The NTW3 v5 mod seams to be well received with very few complaints or problems so far. We're working on the v5 patch and hope to have it completed at the end of April so it can be released in early May.

Lord Avon has put out stat changes for the heavy cav as that seams to be the major issue. Hopefully the feedback will allow him to make the necessary adjustments. AL42 and I have been working on updating the unit info cards to replace the old vanilla ones and update the new ones.

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The new French~Belge units were modded for the SP Campaign by our Belgium modder Gironne :mrgreen:


:arrow: The HB mod will have additional battles that Lord Desaix has been working on: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthre ... d-for-2015

:arrow: The SPC mod will have updated graphics, missions and more of Lord Fullin's custom units in the campaign game: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthre ... tes/page25
Last edited by Lord Davn on Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:55 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby Lord Davn » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:14 am

Updated info cards for British cavalry. AL may put Lannes out of work pretty soon :mrgreen:

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Re: v5 patch

Postby Chromey » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:03 am

Hey love the patch keep em coming! Also is this the thread were we point out problems/contradictions of this patch? If so why can some bottom tier militia form square and others cant? Why cant the sappers of the Imperial Guard not shoot? DO you hate the Imperial Guard? :rolleyes: (just kidding) Thanks for finally working on a patch!!! :surprise:
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Re: v5 patch

Postby Lord Avon Ulysses » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:03 am

Hey love the patch keep em coming! Also is this the thread were we point out problems/contradictions of this patch? If so why can some bottom tier militia form square and others cant? Why cant the sappers of the Imperial Guard not shoot? DO you hate the Imperial Guard? (just kidding) Thanks for finally working on a patch!!!


List them here if you like.
I've corrected the non-shooting engineers.
A list of the Morale 10 (2) units that can form square/pike square would be useful.
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Re: v5 patch

Postby Lord Uxbridge » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:09 pm

Also happy to see a patch is on it's way as I really miss cavalry featuring in battles. Hopefully the numerous issues with the exceptionally weak cavalry are being addressed. I would also like to question some of the unit pricings in this version (without referring to all heavy cavalry which are excessively priced - a point made many times on the forums already).

Spain
All Spanish mid to higher tier infantry are now overpriced but particularly the following units:

Voluntarios de Madrid This is a weak, very slow and fragile unit hardly ever used in battles and at 510 is not worth the cost. This should be a cheaper option to the regular mid tier/elite line units.
Provincial Militia Even with the guerrilla ability its not worth 360.
Regiment Princesa
Grenaderos de Canarias

I don't think the cost per man should be higher for a major power like Spain than nations such as Westphalia, Wurttemburg and Bavaria: much smaller minor nations that didn't even field their own armies at the time.

Also a reminder that the Regiment Almeria name needs to be changed to Regiment Toledo and the unit card for Toledo and Voluntarios de guipuzcoa need to be re - done.

Peninsular Exp force
King's Germain Legion 1st Hussars This may be a mistake but it cost 1410 which is more than double Brit Light dragoons at 630 and the stats difference is very small.
British 6lber foot Again possibly a mistake? at 1420 this is almost 3 times as much as the Portueguese 6lber at 560 with little diff in stats.

I would like to see the British and French Peninsular forces expanded to full factions so we can use them in conjunction with the Portuguese and Spanish factions in peninsular themed battles.

Cavalry Numbers Problems
I would suggest looking at the light cavalry units with large numbers and low morale like the Russian Cossacks and Ottoman Deli Lancers. There is very little real benefit to the extra numbers in these units, they rout just as easily as a unit half the size with the same stats but cost you much more than the smaller units. They will nearly always get beaten by smaller cheaper units with better stats so no one will bring them.

Maybe increasing the morale and stats of these larger units in correlation to their numbers would work quite well. For example, deli lancers at 57 men would have 10 attack, 14 defence and 30 morale but at 92 men would have 14 attack, 18 defence and 45 morale to represent the larger numbers of men in the unit. The extra cost would then be justified. This is something that could also be applied to heavy cavalry and dragoons as It's the only way I can see the variety in cavalry numbers actually work. Otherwise I think we would need to go back to the cavalry numbers variations we had in v1 and v2.
Last edited by Lord Uxbridge on Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: v5 patch

Postby Vilain de Bourg-en-Bresse » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:16 am

Lord Avon Ulysses wrote:List them here if you like.
I've corrected the non-shooting engineers.


I hope the shooting could be fixed for the French 1st chasseurs à cheval, as well, as it caused crashes.

Lord Avon Ulysses wrote:A list of the Morale 10 (2) units that can form square/pike square would be useful.


Only the Austrian Landwehr can form pike square.

Austria (20) : Landwehr / Men : 183 / Morale :10 / Abilities : pike square, defenses
Denmark (17) : Milits / Men : 183 / Morale : 10 / Abilities : defenses
Hanover (14) : Landwehr / Men : 183 / Morale : 10 / Abilities : defenses
Italy (19) : Milizia / Men : 183 / Morale : 10 / Abilities : defenses
Naples (15) : Milizia / Men : 183 / Morale : 5 / Abilities : defenses
Ottomans (17) : Köylü birlikler / Men : 183 / Morale : 5 / Abilities : open order, defenses
Portugal (18) : Militia / Men : 183 / Morale : 10 / Abilities : defenses
Russia (20) : Opelchenie / Men : 183 / Morale : 5 / Abilities : defenses
Saxony (18) : Landwehr / Men : 183 / Morale : 10 / Abilities : defenses
Netherlands (16) : Nationale Militie / Men : 183 / Morale : 10 / Abilities : defenses
Westphalia (17) : Miliz / Men : 183 / Morale : 10 / Abilities : defenses
Baden (16) : Landwehr / Men : 123 / Morale :15 / Abilities : hollow square, defenses
Bavaria (18) : Landwehr / Men : 123 / Morale : 15 / Abilities : hollow square, defenses
Berg (10) : Nationalgarde / Men : 153 / Morale : 15 / Abilities : hollow square
GB (20) : Han. Landw. / Men : 153 / Morale : 15 / Abilities : hollow square, defenses
France (20) : Garde nationale / Men : 123 / Morale : 15 / Abilities : hollow square, defenses
Hanover (14) : Landw. "CFk" / Men : 133 / Morale : 15 / Abilities : pike square
Hessen (12) : Landwehr / Men : 123 / Morale : 15 / Abilities : hollow square, defenses
Poland (19) : Gwardia narodowa / Men : 153 / Morale : 15 / Abilities : pike square, defenses
Portugal (18) : Ordenancas / Men : 153 / Morale : 15 / Abilities : defenses
Prussia (20) : Pommerian Landw. / Men : 133 / Morale : 15 / Abilities : pike square, defenses
Spain (17) : Voluntarios (Line) / Men : 153 / Morale : 15 / Abilities : hollow square
-::::::- (17) : Milicia provincial / Men : 183 / Morale : 15 / Abilities : guerilla, pike sq., def.
Sweden (18) : Milis / Men : 183 / Morale : 15 / Abilities : pike square, defenses
Wurtthemberg (18) : Landwehr / Men : 123 / Morale : 15 / Abilities : pike square, defenses
VENIVIDICITIDI

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Re: v5 patch

Postby Lord Avon Ulysses » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:43 am

Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming.

Uxbridge,
The overpricing of some cavalry & cannon in the ½ factions was a deliberate move to ‘encourage’ players to take realistic armies.
The theory was to make 1 gun & 1-2 cav cheap, so players would take them rather than try to fill close to 20 slots with infantry.
We wanted the ½ factions to field smaller numbers & this was way of making this a better option (for the player) with cav/cannon included.

We will look at your Spanish pricing adjustments, but they are priced in-line with other factions.

I agree with your thoughts on the large crap cav, I will give them a small morale boost.

Vilain de Bourg-en-Bresse,
Why didn’t you post this an hour sooner, I just spent that time combing through the list, to also discover that the Aust LW was the only Militia grade with square.
But one inf (the Naples conscript) will also loose the square, but gain a hole-in-the-ground.


Ux, Vilain, Chom,
I will PM you with the test file so you can comment on the changes.
If anyone else is interested in testing let me know.
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Re: v5 patch

Postby Lord Uxbridge » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:22 pm

Lord Avon Ulysses wrote:Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming.

Uxbridge,
The overpricing of some cavalry & cannon in the ½ factions was a deliberate move to ‘encourage’ players to take realistic armies.
The theory was to make 1 gun & 1-2 cav cheap, so players would take them rather than try to fill close to 20 slots with infantry.
We wanted the ½ factions to field smaller numbers & this was way of making this a better option (for the player) with cav/cannon included.

We will look at your Spanish pricing adjustments, but they are priced in-line with other factions.

I agree with your thoughts on the large crap cav, I will give them a small morale boost.

Vilain de Bourg-en-Bresse,
Why didn’t you post this an hour sooner, I just spent that time combing through the list, to also discover that the Aust LW was the only Militia grade with square.
But one inf (the Naples conscript) will also loose the square, but gain a hole-in-the-ground.


Ux, Vilain, Chom,
I will PM you with the test file so you can comment on the changes.
If anyone else is interested in testing let me know.


Thanks Avon, I look forward to testing the file.

There are some rather substantial price discrepancies with Spanish infantry compared to other similar point factions such as Bavaria for example:
Regiment Princesa, cost 480, 123 men acc 18, relaod 60, morale 30, mel attack 15, def 8 compared to Bavarian 7.Infanteri Lowenstern, cost 430, 123 men, acc 20, realod 60, morale 30, attack 15, def 7.
Regiment Irlanda for Spain, cost 580, 123 men, acc 20, realod 70, morale 35, attack, 17, def 9, compared to Bavarian inf Prize Karl, cost 540, 123 men, 22 acc, reload 70, morale 35, attack 17, def 7.
Considering the difference in size of both these nations armies during the napoleonic wars the pricing should be the other way around.

The larger cavalry units could all get a similar stat boost, say maybe for every +5/+10 men in a cav unit there could be +1 attack, +1 defence, +1charge and +5 morale. As I say this could work better in balancing the larger and smaller cav units against each other.

I meant to say something before but The Hungarian infantry for Austria are too expensive in comparison to the German infantry units. An extra 80 for the veteran Hungarian fusiliers compared to the Bohmische fusiliers is too steep for a unit with -5 morale, less speed, no resistance to morale shocks an extra 20 men and +5 reload.

I understand what your saying about the exp force units and the need to encourage players to take a more varied stack with them but considering how rarely these half factions are actually used and how players tend to stay clear of over priced units, I just think they won't appear in anyones stack.

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Re: v5 patch

Postby Chromey » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:37 pm

Awesome work by Vilain de Bourg-en-Bresse!! Just want to add onto that..

Please remove hollow square from Hannoverian militia infantry from ENG and Spanish voluntarios. 153 man huge hollow squares are highly annoying and absurd. Such lowly trained units should not have this awesome ability to form a giant shield for their artillery men. Give them pike square or better yet remove their square abilility entirely. Pommerche landwehr have resistance to morale shocks which no other bottom tier militia has besides them. I think that is mistake.

More 2 follow :silent:
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Re: v5 patch

Postby Lord Uxbridge » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:30 pm

Chromey wrote:Awesome work by Vilain de Bourg-en-Bresse!! Just want to add onto that..

Please remove hollow square from Hannoverian militia infantry from ENG and Spanish voluntarios. 153 man huge hollow squares are highly annoying and absurd. Such lowly trained units should not have this awesome ability to form a giant shield for their artillery men. Give them pike square or better yet remove their square abilility entirely. Pommerche landwehr have resistance to morale shocks which no other bottom tier militia has besides them. I think that is mistake.

More 2 follow :silent:


I can't agree with you about those two units Chromey. The Hanoverian Landwehr did form square at waterloo and held it with great discipline against the mass French Cavalry charges. The Spanish Voluntarios are not the Spanish Militia but represent the first tier/conscript line infantry for Spain, thats why they form square. Even with the larger squares it's still very tough to prevent your artillery losing it's limbers and crew against that late surge charge from cavalry. I'll agree with you about the Pommerische landwehr though. ;)

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Re: v5 patch

Postby Chromey » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:44 am

were on a quest to remove square ability from all bottom tier infantry.. and you ask to keep the coveted hollow square for the dirt cheap bottom of the spanish heap Volunteers? I dont think so Tim. I mean UX :angry:

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Re: v5 patch

Postby Lord Uxbridge » Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:17 am

Chromey wrote:were on a quest to remove square ability from all bottom tier infantry.. and you ask to keep the coveted hollow square for the dirt cheap bottom of the spanish heap Volunteers? I dont think so Tim. I mean UX :angry:


I'm not on that same quest as you Chromey, you cheeky young whippersnapper. Especially when units like the Hanoverian Landwehr did form square historically. Besides, I think Avon was only looking to remove square from units with 10 morale or less and both those units have a morale of 15.

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Re: v5 patch

Postby Chromey » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:38 am

I'm not on that same quest as you Chromey, you cheeky young whippersnapper. Especially when units like the Hanoverian Landwehr did form square historically. Besides, I think Avon was only looking to remove square from units with 10 morale or less and both those units have a morale of 15.[/quote]


pike square perhaps for the under trained militia. Hell whats a voluntario any ways but a fresh off the street citizen trained on how to do a few facing orders and to point the musket in the right direction? Hollow squares took drill and practice to do them in the time frame that they are done in ntw aka 3 seconds. That takes time, skill and practice!!
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Re: v5 patch

Postby Lord Uxbridge » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:37 am

Chromey wrote:
pike square perhaps for the under trained militia. Hell whats a voluntario any ways but a fresh off the street citizen trained on how to do a few facing orders and to point the musket in the right direction? Hollow squares took drill and practice to do them in the time frame that they are done in ntw aka 3 seconds. That takes time, skill and practice!!



I know it's suprising that such units could form square but the Spanish conscripts, like other nations conscripts and militias, were usually given the training to do so, whether in the heat of battle they actually did or not is often another matter. With cavalry as weak in mod as it is currently, most times you don't need to form square to fend off cavalry attacks, it just saves you taking heavier casualties, but if It's going to be strengthened enough in the patch then maybe square will be more important and conscript units will need that ability.

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Re: v5 patch

Postby Chromey » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:56 am

so your saying cav is weak enough ruight now that infantry doesnt need square to rout them most times, then you say that the cheapest infantry in the game for spain should have the ability now because in the future the devs might make cavalry stronger again and you want your
153 size hollow square to be able to protect your guns just in case?

Im not sure how I can counter that arguement Ux and I wont any more. Ill just ask the devs to be fair enough to force bottom tier infantry to have at most pike square for bottom teir infantry more then 113 size or to reduce their size to 113 so their hollow square doesnt protect a canon 360 degrees. Or remove the square option entirely and force the player to spend more money guarding their guns. Or keep it the way it is! I just wish more people in the community would speak up about this we sure think its important I wonder why doesnt any one else?
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Re: v5 patch

Postby Lord Uxbridge » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:01 am

Chromey wrote:so your saying cav is weak enough ruight now that infantry doesnt need square to rout them most times, then you say that the cheapest infantry in the game for spain should have the ability now because in the future the devs might make cavalry stronger again and you want your
153 size hollow square to be able to protect your guns just in case?

Im not sure how I can counter that arguement Ux and I wont any more. Ill just ask the devs to be fair enough to force bottom tier infantry to have at most pike square for bottom teir infantry more then 113 size or to reduce their size to 113 so their hollow square doesnt protect a canon 360 degrees. Or remove the square option entirely and force the player to spend more money guarding their guns. Or keep it the way it is! I just wish more people in the community would speak up about this we sure think its important I wonder why doesnt any one else?



What I'm saying is that units that could, or were trained to, form square historically, should have that ability in game and once Cav has been given more strength in the patch there will be a batter balance, as good cav units will be able to rout some poor morale units trying to form squares, as they did in previous versions, which they struggle to do in this one. If everything stayed the same as it in this version right now then I would agree that a lot of bottom tier units should lose the square ability as the cav/inf balance is siginificantly out of kilter in favour of infantry.

As for squares guarding guns. I don't see this as an issue as its always been very difficult to guard guns, even in this version where cavalry is as weak as it is, and entrenching guns with a cheap infantry unit has been a necessary evil. Quite often you can form square on a gun to protect it and the cav will still kill your crew and limbers because of that surge and snaking effect where cav can weave in and out of gaps and even through squares.

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Re: v5 patch

Postby Chromey » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:00 pm

Alot of mounted infantry have infantry charge bonus and I think is causing problems on the cav entounters.
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Re: v5 patch

Postby Lord Uxbridge » Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:36 pm

Theres also a problem with England 3 map with a lot of players crashing on load up.

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Re: v5 patch

Postby Lord Lancier » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:45 am

Tried it and same happened to me the other night thanks Uxbridge for mentioning i will change GM1 final map.
Uxbridge wrote:Theres also a problem with England 3 map with a lot of players crashing on load up.
NTW3 Ver. 5-(5.1)-6 (Jan 2015 – Nov 2016)
NTW2 & NTW3 Ver. 1-2-3 (Sep 2009 – June 2013)

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Re: v5 patch

Postby Lord Davn » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:52 pm

Uxbridge wrote:Theres also a problem with England 3 map with a lot of players crashing on load up.
Thanks, I will ask Lord Fullin if he can fix the England 3 map and we'll include it with the v5 patch.
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Re: v5 patch

Postby Lord Davn » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:30 am

We are working to complete the updated icon and info cards for the v5 patch. This fixes the incorrect or missing info cards; replaces the remaining vanilla cards and updates some of the low quality info cards. Hopefully Lord Desaix will be able to finish his work on the additional HB mod battles soon so we can get it ready for release.

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Re: v5 patch

Postby Lord Uxbridge » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:17 pm

The cards are looking good Davn. Are the Almeria/Toledo and the guipuzcoan guerrillas cards being corrected?

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Re: v5 patch

Postby Lord Davn » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:13 pm

Uxbridge wrote:The cards are looking good Davn. Are the Almeria/Toledo and the guipuzcoan guerrillas cards being corrected?
We did quite a few improvements to the Spanish roster. They all look much better now.

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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby Lord Uxbridge » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:52 am

The Guipuzcoan and Almerian (which should now be named Toledo) regiments are still in wrong colours on the unit card but I like the others.

Here is what the Toledo unit card should portray Image

and Guipuzcoa:
Image

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Re: v5.1 patch

Postby oOIYvYIOo » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:45 pm

I got some photos of the Granaderos of Tenerife and the line infantry and also granaderos de Málaga from the museums i have visited this last months and from several Spanish ships and Almirant paintings if your interested Davn.
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