NTW3 7.5 : rate of exhaustion and infnatry fire at gun crew

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NTW3 7.5 : rate of exhaustion and infnatry fire at gun crew

Postby TestingNTW3 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:09 pm

In the few games I have played I find the rate of exhaustion and the effects too exagerarted.

- the armies at the time could walk all day (see the Campaign of Italy or the Hundred Days) they could walk many miles in one day. During the battle: after less than a quarter of a mile they are exhausted. It does not seem right. I understand the exhaustion in melee, but not simply walking

- the cavalry gets exhausted faster than the infantry (!!?!?!?!). A horse can last quite long walking, even at canter on hills and mountains. I find the exhaustion of the cavalry coming too soon and almost impossible to recover as well.

What are the rates of exhaustion currently at? can it be checked?

- when a unit of 150 soldier fires at 10 yards distance, close to a STATIC enemy limbered gun crew of 26, with no tree or hills or anything in between, after each soldier shooting 3-4 times at the gun crew, they only killed.....1

What should be roughly the rate of hits when a whole infantry unit shoots at gun crews?

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Re: NTW3 7.5 : rate of exhaustion and infnatry fire at gun crew

Postby Lord Cosak » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:34 pm

You are wrong on all points:

1) You compare walking and running... In NTW3 units can walk endlessly without being tired.
2) Cavalry gets tired faster when it gallops. Check French or UK manuals about charging with cavalry in 1808-1811: galloping was only for the last 50m or so. It was too straining to gallop with a saber in hand and all package on horseback. So actually cavalry should be get tired faster, not slower, to be more realistic.
3) I did the same test with an average Bavarian infantry, and killed 13 crewmen, not 1. Maybe you tried to shoot with Mameluke peasants.

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Re: NTW3 7.5 : rate of exhaustion and infnatry fire at gun crew

Postby TheRomanRuler » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:54 am

Humans can actually run longer than horses when measured in time. We just can't run as fast aka as long distance as horses, and we can't carry as much.

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Re: NTW3 7.5 : rate of exhaustion and infnatry fire at gun crew

Postby TestingNTW3 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:43 pm

Lord Cosak wrote:You are wrong on all points:

1) You compare walking and running... In NTW3 units can walk endlessly without being tired.

It was only for walking, not running, the units seems to get tired too quickly. Is there a test I can do on a specific map: walk this unit from there to there and the unit will be tired here, very tired there, exhausted there, to check how it is supposed to be? Any specific test to double check it works as expected?

2) Cavalry gets tired faster when it gallops. Check French or UK manuals about charging with cavalry in 1808-1811: galloping was only for the last 50m or so. It was too straining to gallop with a saber in hand and all package on horseback. So actually cavalry should be get tired faster, not slower, to be more realistic.

Minimum horse racing distance is 1100 yards on the tracks. Hopefully a trained hose can do more than 50m. You can see Usain Bolt laughing for the next 50m then?
For example at Waterloo, from Papelotte going towards where Blucher usually comes from, lancers and light cavalry got from Fresh to Exhaust during the lenght of the last large big house, so about 40m. That does not seem right. The riders should be exhausted, and hit less well the enemy with the swords, but a horse is much stronger than this. It can canter for a long time (see for exmaple the story of the pony express carrying the mail).


3) I did the same test with an average Bavarian infantry, and killed 13 crewmen, not 1. Maybe you tried to shoot with Mameluke peasants.

It was actually the AI at Austerlitz, French regular infantry unit of 150 men in a line against Austrian gun crew of 26 men, 20s yard distance max, no terrain, no trees in between. After reloading and shooting 3 times, still only one gun crew killed. That did not seem right either.

If anyone has any test to suggest to verify this I can try to double check.



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Re: NTW3 7.5 : rate of exhaustion and infnatry fire at gun crew

Postby Lord Cosak » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:58 pm

1) I wrote it already and won't repeat it: units don't get tired if walking. If you make groups, most units will run even if you don't ask them to.

2) Horce racing with specific breed and lightweight jockeys? Are you comparing it with standard horses, poorly fed and saddled, and military equipped horsemen with full gears ? Waste of time to even comment. Don't forget fatigue also represents the cohesion of a troop. Horse are very fearful animals, even prone to heart attacks.

3) HB?

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Re: NTW3 7.5 : rate of exhaustion and infnatry fire at gun crew

Postby Lord Davn » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:32 pm

TestingNTW3 wrote: the cavalry gets exhausted faster than the infantry? A horse can last quite long walking, even at canter on hills and mountains. I find the exhaustion of the cavalry coming too soon and almost impossible to recover as well.

Spend a day with horses; feeding, grooming and cleaning their hoofs. Then take them out for a day long ride in the saddle and you will understand the points that we're trying to make here. The cavalry men lived and died with their horses, if they ran them into the ground they became foot soldiers if they were fortunate enough to survive.

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“This was their finest hour!” ~Winston Churchill

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Re: NTW3 7.5 : rate of exhaustion and infnatry fire at gun crew

Postby TestingNTW3 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:18 pm

I did spend time with horses. So for a 1 hour duration battle, even a standard horse is strong enough.

You make answers here but yet there are still absolutely no measure of the what the rate of exhaustion should be. If you would know, there''d already be an answer that can verify if the game works as expected:

- on this map, take this cavalry unit A riding from this specific point to that specific point and it should get tired here, very tired here, exhausted here.
- on the same map, take infantry B, running from this specific point to that specific point and it should get tired here, very tired here, exhausted here.
etc...

This can be done using reference points on the map (houses, trees, crossroads) or time using the bottom clock.

Your answers just tell me you believe blindly the game works, without actually any measure at all of how it should work. From the few game I did look at the rate of exhaustion and something is NOT working. So if we have something precise to compare with I can verify.

On the shooting again yesterday, Rivoli map, one unit from Massena, 123 men (fresh) in front of the L.O.C building, aligned 15 m from the door in a 2 deep line. One Austrian soldier from the 6 of the LOC on the doorstep the other inside: at the end 50ish men shooting a guy in front of them shot a reload 3 times, did not hit it. All the windows of the building got shattered well. But the guy just on the doorstep, not hit.

There are some obvious programming or code errors that are easy to correct if people would have ablity to look and measure.

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Re: NTW3 7.5 : rate of exhaustion and infnatry fire at gun crew

Postby Lord Cosak » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:46 pm

You are talking about HB.... This doesn't apply, these stats are not maintained or updated for about five years.

So this is not related anymore to NTW3 since Desaix (HB designer) doesn't even want to talk to the Lordz team.


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